Submitted by [deleted] t3_zwmt8w in television
[deleted]
Comments
SanSeb t1_j1vkhx3 wrote
I don't understand what you mean with that comment.RoP and the new Star Wars trilogy surely did not have the expected success.
Edit: Downvotes instead of answers. Awesome.
WordsAreSomething t1_j1vkzjr wrote
So your argument is that if they just had more white men they would be better and more successful?
Sniffingcat t1_j1vlkru wrote
Getting in on this, the star wars movies would have been receved better by fans if the writing was good, i think very few actually cares about the skincolor of the cast, except a certain right leaning group that don't watch star wars anyway.
Best_Pidgey_NA t1_j1vm33t wrote
I would have liked it if they used the books as inspiration for the movies, not A New Hope 2.0. the cast didn't matter a single bit in why I didn't like it. So yeah like you said
Sniffingcat t1_j1vmmr3 wrote
Fully agree!
SanSeb t1_j1vlhnh wrote
If you would have read my post correctly, you would have seen that I mentioned, that different races should be included in a way that it makes sense and that women should be portrayed as women with great traits and not as men that behave like arrogant antagonists.
And I believe if that would be the case, the quality of the shows would rise and therefore the success would be bigger, yes.
Balthazar40 t1_j1vlrdm wrote
........um the two biggest African American characters in rings of power were like the best parts of the show
bazzbj t1_j1vmvua wrote
Yup but because they are PoC, there is no way they were "great". They think they were just added to the show to meet a checklist and completely disregard their good performance.
pdxtech t1_j1vlz8u wrote
>women should be portrayed as women
What does this even mean? You sound like an incel.
spinspin t1_j1vm0og wrote
So...the diagnosis here seems to be that you just have a bunch of related misconceptions in a big jumble and they're confusing you.
There is no "woke agenda" being forced on you. It's just that you're suddenly seeing more people on screen who aren't just like you and the people you're most comfortable with. It's that simple, even if you won't see it.
WordsAreSomething t1_j1vm2ob wrote
What doesn't make sense about the races of humans in Star Wars or Rings of Power? I don't really know what the rest of your comment is supposed to mean.
GuyNoirPI t1_j1vm1zn wrote
In the case of Star Wars, what would be a way that makes more sense for an Asian or black character?
sweetpeapickle t1_j1vrc1a wrote
Different races should be included that make sense.....WTF? Why wouldn't any race make sense? A character needs to be of a certain race for what reason?
SanSeb t1_j1vsstl wrote
Because a medieval village does not have random characters from different races that never showed up in that series before. Are you guys dumb or simply results of the US education system? WTF?
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1w0dii wrote
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/blacks-britannica
> Africans have been present in England for more than two thousand years, but we rarely see them or hear about them. And often their existence is dismissed as a figment of 'political correctness' or 'wokism.'
https://www.thehumanityarchive.com/articles/black-people-medieval-europe
>Contrary to popular belief, there were black people and others from around the world seen in every corner and nook of society.
>Living in Portugal, Spain, Austria, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Italy, and England. International trading cities such as Venice were multicultural magnets. It’s time to rethink everything we know about the presence of black people in Europe during this time period. The picture of the middle ages isn’t accurate without them.
See this is why I think you’re an idiot.
SanSeb t1_j1w3p17 wrote
You’re not even reading your own articles. Surely there were in trading ports and big cities and castles. Surely not regularly in village towns with a handful of houses.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1w48bg wrote
Ah yea I didn’t think of that. Surely it would be impossible for any of the thousands of black people in cities to ever appear in a village.
See this is why I think you’re an idiot.
hangryhyax t1_j1vximn wrote
Everyone read your post correctly, and it’s asinine. Now you’re doubling down by essentially saying “female characters should behave the way I want them to.”
PropJoe421 t1_j1vl8h0 wrote
The new Star Wars trilogy made $4 billy.
ayylmao95 t1_j1vnt9g wrote
Lmfao. People also forget that the target audience for SW is children, with whom the ST was a huge success.
Kids still dressing as Rey for Halloween even though there's been radio silence on the ST for three years.
I'm sure in 10-20 years there will be a huge ST fan renaissance when all those kids grown-up, like with the PT.
supmandude t1_j1vlchg wrote
Why do women and black people scare you so much, OP?
Kexax t1_j1vlpld wrote
If a white side character is bad or poorly written, nobody bats an eye. If a black or woman side character is bad or poorly written, then “OMG Hollywood liberal #woke agenda!!!” and suddenly you have to justify why a minority character exists. The way these people view non-white men in media is absolutely unhinged.
[deleted] OP t1_j1volcd wrote
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SanSeb t1_j1vlrqw wrote
What weird take is that? Did you even read my post or are you just enraged that I am not a fan of placing token people and then checking the #inclusion box?
markmevans t1_j1vmb2v wrote
> I am not a fan of placing token people and then checking the #inclusion box?
So the default should be cisgender white people, and everyone else needs an explicit reason to exist. Right? Do you fucking hear yourself?
ayylmao95 t1_j1vniso wrote
I don't understand why people who hold these beliefs are too afraid to say it outright, but to no end will obsess over the topic. Is it just trolling?
Neat_Petite t1_j1vq41q wrote
It’s because they think if they’re suuuuuuper clever and sneaky about it, they can win people around to their valiant cause.
ayylmao95 t1_j1vq9s9 wrote
That makes a lot of sense.. I could never conceive of a reason besides trying to provoke people. Thanks for making this headache make a little more sense.
Neat_Petite t1_j1vqoaz wrote
You’ve only got a headache cos of the Woke Left^(tm)
ayylmao95 t1_j1vqr4i wrote
You're right, switching ideologies now.
[deleted] OP t1_j1vovql wrote
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usmcplz t1_j1vmorn wrote
They're only "token" to you, your weird online friends and the fox news universe. Everyone else just sees them as characters.
ayylmao95 t1_j1vmzg9 wrote
So absurdly ironic. To put a POC or female in the lead is tokenism? What you're describing is the exact opposite. It sounds like you'd prefer tokenism, or probably just no women or POC at all, in your content.
By your logic, it would be impossible to have a female or POC lead without it being tokenism, meaning what exactly? That women and POC have no place in the entertainment industry?
GulfLife t1_j1vzuvv wrote
Our man literally made a list of things assholes say in post form and is flabbergasted people could mistake him for an asshole somehow.
How come every person that posts dumb-shit-cosplaying-as-a-hot-take always come back with “did you even read my post?!” All indigently… like, yes, of course, and that’s exactly why everyone thinks you’re an asshole.
The_Narz t1_j1vlht2 wrote
The fuck is “good feminine values & traits?” You sound like an incel…
hubbabubbahoe t1_j1vlwrf wrote
Oh you know. Meek, submissive, quiet. Can’t be brave or loud, that’s for men. /s
OrangeJr36 t1_j1vmnuj wrote
Don't forget the Boobs!
hubbabubbahoe t1_j1vnles wrote
Oh and she has to be white or at least light skinned. And thin. And basically a model.
LilyWhitehouse t1_j1vmh1e wrote
I think “sound” might be an understatement.
lt_dan_zsu t1_j1vp8uv wrote
No, the dude that's mad about 6 not white characters across 2 franchises is probably completely normal.😂
RepTexas t1_j1vl79x wrote
"Wokeness" really only impact one type of person.
The rest of the many different kinds of people don't pay much attention to it in terms of media being good or bad.
As a kid I watched Captain Planet and loved every second of it, never did I question why there was a diverse cast preaching about liberal ideals. It was just a cool cartoon. same way I look at everything else.
JWells16 t1_j1vlgdw wrote
Man, you decided to go with some interesting choices for “flops.”
SanSeb t1_j1vlz45 wrote
The Star Wars franchise did a big nose dive, RoP is being floored by HotD. Surely not a success.
Also not even mentioning the all female ghost busters or Oceans movies.
OrangeJr36 t1_j1vmbro wrote
Ah yes, the biggest success that Amazon Prime Video has ever had that is well reviewed by professional critics is somehow in trouble.
Clarksp2 t1_j1vn8kp wrote
While I don’t agree at all with OPs assessment of wokeness in RoP, but I really don’t see where you are saying RoP is Amazon’s biggest success? They’ve spent nearly 800m dollars. Success shouldn’t be only viewed by evaluation of critics (usually paid propaganda at this point) but more on return on investment.
I truly don’t see how this boring series will provide decades long engagement to bring back the billions spent on its development
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vnn4c wrote
As I understand RoP broke Amazon’s viewership record.
Clarksp2 t1_j1vpflb wrote
Viewership record doesn’t mean increase in profits? Also, do third parties investigate viewership reporting? If I spent 4 times the amount of budget than any previous project, I would want the world to think that it was more viewed than it was.
Regardless if the viewership stats are true, I still don’t see the correlation to success in terms of profit
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vryw5 wrote
Okay so because the stats don’t align with what you believe you’re just going to say the stats are fake? RoP is Amazon’s most successful show and has already turned a profit. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to share.
Clarksp2 t1_j1wef56 wrote
Lol I read that article after a quick google search myself and nowhere in it states “how they’ve turned profits”
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1wg3h2 wrote
> “It’s just been a powerhouse for us. And, as big of an investment as it’s been, it has more than paid off for us,” Amazon’s Head of Television continued. “So, we’re thrilled. But it’s a great question. I don’t even know what the initial hopes were, but we’ve also grown so significantly as a service, with both this and the NFL, over the fall. We’ve just seen a tremendous surge of new memberships.”
Clarksp2 t1_j1whh8w wrote
Increase in subscribers while also noting the addition of all Thursday night NFL games as part of that says zero about how RoP has turned them a profit?
So are they saying every single “new” subscriber only subscribed for RoP/NFL, how many new subscribers? These statements sound a lot like the grandiose verbiage Trump would spew “tremendous” “greatest ever” “number 1”
Just give me the actual stats. 465 million spent on the first season. If the subscriber increase has turned profit, that would mean a total of 31 million new subscribers over the course of the 3.5-4months of its release.
One article quoting the show runners saying it’s a hit is far from showing proof of turning a profit
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1wn2cm wrote
Here’s what I have: Amazon head of television saying that it’s profitable and Amazon investing more money into the show to produce more of it.
Here’s what you have:
Clarksp2 t1_j1woqs5 wrote
Lol one statement from the very person who has a personal stake in it without any factual numbers is not anything.
Ask yourself, if I quadrupled my content budget for just one show, and that show doesn’t do well, do you think I’m going to say so?
They have much more to gain by “claiming” it’s turning a profit than saying it will take years to return the investment.
So good job finding the one statement from the show runner.
Also, not sure how you aren’t seeing my logic. I feel like you don’t even realize that I’ve watched the show, enjoyed it, but was not as exciting as the anticipation of the show was. All I’m saying is that there’s absolutely no way in 3.5 months they have already generated 500m in profit (not just revenue) from “viewership hours and increased subscribers” 31 million monthly subscribers would need to be added just to get return of investment, but there are other intangibles associated with that (ie running costs of the service, increased server capacity/bandwidth,maintenance, customer service, etc) so the real number to profit would need to be somewhere in the 40-45 million subscribers (14.99/month).
And that still assumes that every last subscriber that has been added can be tied to RoP, but in the article you keep quoting, they also talk about the big partnership with the NFL which also contributed to subscriber increase
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1wryue wrote
Here’s what I have: Amazon head of television saying that it’s profitable and Amazon investing more money into the show to produce more of it.
Here’s what you have:
Clarksp2 t1_j1wtn8r wrote
Cute little keyboard warrior, you are. Until you can show actual financial figures, not just Amazon potentially doubling down on a gamble (all investments are), then all you have is a statement from Amazon who only benefits from exaggerating the reality. I hope it works for them, as I am a big Tolkien fan, but to say it’s a success in my opinion (yes, mine, less biased than the show runners opinion) is a large exaggeration. If you compare the critical and audience reception of the LOTR, this is drastically different, regardless of longer reach that allows more views than the early 2000s.
Either way, happy holidays fellow redditor, I do wish you well
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1wwzu2 wrote
The show runners say it’s successful but some random person on Reddit says nah, based on pure speculation and perhaps the most laughably shallow analysis of profitability I’ve seen. Oh yeah your completely uninformed feelings totally hold more weight.
As far as cute keyboard warrior comment, that’s funny coming from someone arguing with me on a keyboard.
Clarksp2 t1_j1x296m wrote
I use talk to text on my phone, got ya!
Anywho, you know who also runs a show, and claims success, but it’s all bullshxt? Putin.
My shallow analysis of profitability, eh? What would be your take? In many of my responses I asked questions that weren’t all that rhetorical. How would you equate profitability then, besides that the show runners say so?
I quickly brought about a rough estimate of subscribers needed to have a return on investment. Which is usually what most people call “profit”
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1xbc95 wrote
You know who assumes bullshit just because it was said by someone who may have a vague motive to lie? Covid deniers. Election deniers. Most conspiracists. I’m not a fan of that way of thinking.
If I have a $468 billion dollar company and I wanted to know if something bundled within that service was profiting my company, I would probably first look at how popular it is. If something bundled in my $468 billion dollar company was the most popular thing in that company, and I spent less than half of 1 billion on it, I would say it’s probably profitable.
Then again I don’t really know. I know that people with more information than I have have said it’s profitable, and no one has shown otherwise. Least of all you.
[deleted] OP t1_j1wg404 wrote
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TurrPhennirPhan t1_j1vrx4q wrote
Gotta say, that’s a weird metric. Yeah, they spent a lot of time and money on it.
Like, I recently made like $30 spending an hour writing an article on how Bossk might be a cannibal. Amazon “only” made hundreds of millions from RoP.
Which is the bigger success? The multimillion dollar fantasy project that still made millions, or the 650 words I farted out about a space lizard eating other space lizards that costed me all of a slow period at work?
twodickhenry t1_j1vnhzq wrote
Didn’t it gross billions?
Clarksp2 t1_j1voo7f wrote
How does 1 season of streaming gross billions? If that’s the case, good for them. (Did they sell the rights to other services, can you buy/rent physical copies of it? Or do they just measure the increase in monthly subscribers and attribute it solely to RoP?) But just because it had the biggest budget of any prime original, and the largest marketing allocation to boot, doesn’t mean it’s the biggest success.
Personal opinion : success of movie/television should be measured on its overall return on investment.
Non Amazon example would be Deadpool, budget less than 80m with overall revenue close to or exceeding a billion dollars.
In terms of spending a billion to make 1.2 billion, isn’t a success at just a 20% ROI compared to the 1000% ROI other well scripted, lower budget originals can bring
twodickhenry t1_j1vv5e2 wrote
I was going off other comments when I asked that, but since you didn’t know I dug a little and it has indeed turned a profit, according to the show runners. It’s also the most-watched first-season show amazon has produced.
I don’t think anyone thinks it was great, but my point was that if you’re going by the ROI, it appears it was successful.
Clarksp2 t1_j1wep3y wrote
Lol how has it turned a profit though? I keep seeing this same article shared. If I spent a billion dollars, I’d probably also want my investors to not feel slighted so would ultimately say “massive success, worth every penny” but saying it without showing it are two different things entirely
[deleted] OP t1_j1vnyln wrote
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Ttthhasdf t1_j1vmdoa wrote
I haven't watched house of dragons but aren't there black characters and female characters?
jankyspankybank t1_j1vn0fy wrote
Yes, in fact early in the show the female leads mother dies from child birth in a gruesome way as a commentary on how women are valued in that society.
lt_dan_zsu t1_j1vp0px wrote
Yes, his contrasting example is hilarious because they also race swapped characters lmao.
TurrPhennirPhan t1_j1vqqyz wrote
The black characters were also white in the book.
The anti-“woke” crowd did, in fact, lose their collective shit over that.
Meanwhile, the Velaryons are probably the one family you could portray as black without breaking established lore and Steve Toussaint crushes it as Lord Corlys.
JWells16 t1_j1vn0xy wrote
I’m not debating that Star Wars nosedived with Rise of the Skywalker; however, the last three Star Wars movies grossed billions of dollars. Likewise, RoP didn’t have as many viewers as HotD, but that was kind of to be expected. HBO has a much better track record making shows than Amazon. That being said, RoP is Amazon’s biggest show ever and also grossed over a billion dollars.
As you said, there are better examples of “wokeness” failing, but you went with examples that made billions of dollars, and their problems weren’t even with being “woke.” They were simply bad writing. You referenced HotD as a success, yet it could be argued that they were “woke” casting black Velaryons.
SanSeb t1_j1vq02p wrote
Well, yeah that was probably expressed in a wrong manner. They were making money that's true, but let's say the expectation of the success was probably a bit higher. Just look at the new trilogy which is mostly regarded as bad now, doesn't have the merchandise sales as expected, etc. So the hype basically died down, besides some "classic" series like Mandalorian bringing back a bit of the former feeling.
RoP was hoping to get the old lotr crowd on board but also being criticized a lot and could have been much better based on the expectations.
So in that sense they maybe didn't flop, but weren't successful because the focus was on shoehorning in some characters instead writing good stories.
HotD at least tried to make a bit of sense with the recasting, while RoP as mentioned just placed tokens in every culture without explaining any further. I would have wanted for them to introduce these new people and races properly into the world. Maybe take the Haradrim who are a arabic-esque group but that obviously wouldn't be relevant for the American market. Here is has to be a black person to check that diversity box. But here we in the rest of the world don't really care. Do it right or not at all. And just placing a random black person into a medieval setting is just weird. Especially when these characters get no proper backstory. I think that's no real inclusion and I don't understand how people here see this criticism as racism instead of being vocal for these minorities to being protrayed with a little bit more respect.
But as said somewhere else in this thread, people don't even care and just want to insult.
ayylmao95 t1_j1vmrkh wrote
Yes, you are certainly the authority on all of this, I'm sure. Your opinion is shared by everyone in the world, without fail!
SerScronzarelli t1_j1vlj0p wrote
Ahhh I see. OP hates women unless they align with their values lol.
usmcplz t1_j1vmhpc wrote
Yeah, I'm reading his criticism and he's acting like everything he is saying is self-evident. When I watched RoP and the Star Wars trilogy I thought of literally none of things he mentioned, I just enjoyed watching. It says a lot about a person that people of color existing in a medium is offensive.
Neat_Petite t1_j1vqayp wrote
If they don’t have skimpy outfits, whilst having their tats and bobbies out, then they’re not women, they’re wokemen.
Boobs, or not real women apparently.
SanSeb t1_j1vs31n wrote
Has a breaking bad flair and honestly thinks Galadriel or Rey are good written characters.
Skyler White would vomit.
SerScronzarelli t1_j1vsjgl wrote
Don't delete your post and then reply to comments.. That's not very "alpha" if you ask me lol
SanSeb t1_j1vsyw7 wrote
There is no single mention of the word "alpha" by me in this thread.
Again, how can you claim to be Breaking Bad fan and then go crazy because of horribly written characters?
SerScronzarelli t1_j1vtgkk wrote
No need for the word alpha to be said. The title from your now deleted posts lets us all know.
Bunnywith_Wings t1_j1vlh09 wrote
What are these "female traits" the lead in RoP is missing, exactly?
jethropenistei- t1_j1vuush wrote
What’s RoP?
SanSeb t1_j1vm3gz wrote
Compassion, supportiveness, gentleness, warmth and many more.
tetoffens t1_j1vmph9 wrote
Do you only have conversations with the women who are pictured on your anime pillows or something? Or your own grandma? Holy fucking incel comment. Go talk to some real women. Also, some men. Rambo isn't what real men are like, anyone who isn't toxic expects to see everything you listed in a large percentage of men.
Are you also ignoring that so many of these "woke" films and movies are being written by actual women? And the idealized fetish version you're talking about was perpetuated when men were doing the writing?
night117hawk t1_j1vnyr3 wrote
Op deleted the post but I’m so glad I was here in time to catch them getting roasted this hard
SanSeb t1_j1vr7sh wrote
Wow, what a roast. A bunch of US citizens with blue and purple haired avatars insulting me. How can I cope?
night117hawk t1_j1w86j7 wrote
Bro you mentioned the following as female traits: compassion, warmth, supportiveness, and gentleness.
You’ve clearly never talked to a strong black woman from the southern US or a stern Filipina mother. I question whether you’ve talked to or really gotten to know any women outside of a dated tradcon world view from decades ago.
Further more while I agree the new trilogy of Star Wars was dog shit; it wasn’t because of a “diverse cast”. You could have cast all of the characters with white actors and replaced Rey with a white man and it would have been just as much a steaming pile of shit. The writing for the movie was just dog shit and rather than say “hey just bad writing” you jumped all the way to “it’s cus they had to have the token asian and black guy, fucking woke agenda ruining everything”.
dnkyhunter31 t1_j1vmltf wrote
Sounds terrible. I hate warmth.
PandFThrowaway t1_j1vp5d7 wrote
It gets everywhere.
[deleted] OP t1_j1vmdtn wrote
[deleted]
Teendirtbag t1_j1vmw3y wrote
You think all women have these traits? Or these are specific to women? Either way wtf?
Bunnywith_Wings t1_j1vmwoe wrote
So, she wouldn't make a good mommy? That's your issue?
twodickhenry t1_j1vnr3c wrote
She was incredibly compassionate, so I’m not sure what you meant there. As for “supportiveness”, she did “support” many people, but is that truly a feminine trait to you? Men who are supportive are emasculating themselves?
SanSeb t1_j1vqlb7 wrote
Just have another look at the scene where Galadriel and her crew search for Sauron in the snowy mountains. Horrible traits and character.
Also, it seems like you guys have very extreme views, so if I would tell you now that certain attributes and traits are more natural with males and others more with females you probably would insult me again like others here, so what's the point to further elaborate.
twodickhenry t1_j1vsaap wrote
Where have I shown any extreme views? You also didn’t answer my questions.
What about that scene are you trying to discuss? I don’t understand what it has to do with what I said.
SanSeb t1_j1vsihp wrote
She shows no compassion, leaves behind her crew, ignores their interests, watches as they get slaughtered by the troll,..
twodickhenry t1_j1vwbir wrote
She watches them get slaughtered? She’s the only character who acts, though. She saves one of them and kills it. But… wouldn’t it be more traditionally feminine if she DID stay on the sidelines? Isn’t fighting a masculine trait?
Again I’m not sure what you mean by the compassion comment. She’s repeatedly compassionate throughout the series. In the mountains she is WITH the party, and she is it’s leader. Making a decision and showing agency is what a leader is supposed to do, whether they’re matriarchal or patriarchal.
She shows a good deal of compassion towards the people she she is fighting to save by tackling a threat that she knows still exists. She rides for days on end to save a man she believes to be a rightful king and leader to a suffering people.
Raincat21 t1_j1vpjk7 wrote
So women are not allowed to be assertive, courageous, powerful, etc. Women can only be submissive to men or it’s too woke. Got it.
mugenhunt t1_j1vk41n wrote
The trick is that Hollywood genuinely believes that increasing diversity in TV shows to better reflect the reality of the human condition, rather than give preferential treatment to straight white men, will increase the number of people interested in watching their shows.
That if you want a wider audience to watch your show, having a diverse cast is a good way of doing that.
stuckshift t1_j1vlu9b wrote
Sarah Connor
Ellen Ripley
Princess Leia
Even the mom in gremlins. Lots of girlfriends, Grandmas and moms from the 80s and 90s tv were the heroes or basases, or complex characters.
What the F are you talking about, OP?
Edit: Audiences can tell when they are being pandered to. Ghostbusters with Kristen Wiig was not a well written comedy. Bridesmaids was extremely funny, and stands the test of time. Mean Girls as well, written by a bonafide comedy writer, Tina Fey.
There will always be space for tackiness and flops. But the issue is thinking that a movie is bad simply because it has a diverse cast.
Another issue of course is that movies are written by committee now to be viable to international audiences.
OP, I can no longer see your original post, so I am not sure what you said, but I wish it were still up so I could see what your point was. I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you are one against “wokeness” which is a buzz word devoid of its original meaning much like “fake news” and “cancel culture” through its use by right wing pundits.
okcrumpet t1_j1vmrpt wrote
OP mentions Ripley though. Pretty sure they'd agree with your examples and overall point
SanSeb t1_j1vog0n wrote
Thanks bud, but this battle here is lost.
Just triggered people all around not understanding my issue with these movies and shows being made. Even wishing for black or asian people getting real stories and backstories is now racist. Completely weird.
The mentioned characters of stuckshift guy are what are well written female characters, caring for their kid/crew/people instead of being a ultra talented ninja with no flaws.
But whatever. Being called an incel that only speaks to his Grandma again in 3, 2, 1,..
Kappa
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vppmd wrote
If it makes you feel better I don’t think you’re an incel, just an idiot with confirmation bias.
SanSeb t1_j1vq98e wrote
Great contribution insulting me instead of bringing one argument that relates to my post. Let me guess, you are from the US?
No clue, but strong opinions and only knowing extremes.
sweetpeapickle t1_j1vqtm1 wrote
Ok so your answer is to insult all from the U.S.....
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vra1i wrote
Okay, for example both House of the Dragon and Rings of Power had diverse characters and both were successful, but since one was more successful than the other, you consider HotD successful non woke and RoP a woke flop.
SanSeb t1_j1vtf3y wrote
HotD has great characters. Female and Male. Therefore the issue with the race of the Valaryans can be overlooked. The lead protagonists Rhaenyra and Alicent show feminine attributes that make them believable, foremost the well-being of their kids. They are not jumping around and single handedly killing monsters and physically strong knights. Because no sense in a world that is not "woke".
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vtmro wrote
So it wasn’t woke because it was well written? See this is why I think you’re an idiot.
SanSeb t1_j1vu6j3 wrote
Listen "idiot", the decision to cast them as black, is still woke. But they at least tried to make it fit with there being a whole family. Also, all the characters where well written, so this issue does not have a major impact on the show itself.
Meanwhile the lotr universe having only white male dwarves and one random black female one, is weird without explanation. The actress did a good job though I have to say.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vud6h wrote
Right, so well written shows= not woke, poorly written shows=woke.
See this is why I think you’re an idiot.
ayylmao95 t1_j1vrg9u wrote
In this thread: OP Accuses replier of "strong opinions" and only "knowing extremes" when said replier responded to his strongly opinionated (one might say extreme) post.
lt_dan_zsu t1_j1vs0ko wrote
Stop watching American media if you hate the US so much.
Raincat21 t1_j1vqll9 wrote
People disagree with you = triggered. People like you will never learn because you will never acknowledge your own problem. What you gonna delete your post now cause your little feelings are hurt?
SanSeb t1_j1vqtca wrote
Grown people insulting me over a post = triggered and embarrassing.
Raincat21 t1_j1vr4cu wrote
A grown person who can’t take criticisms = pathetic and a crybaby.
SanSeb t1_j1vtt2z wrote
Insults are no criticism. As said before, all you guys are obviously from the US, have no discussion culture and don't know anything else then being black or white and insulting people. That's why you stick to two political parties and support them like a boyband instead of caring for actual topics that would bring you forward.
Raincat21 t1_j1vuxtc wrote
There are bunch of productive criticisms in the comment sections. Yet I don't see you addressing nor acknowledging any of them. Did you actually seek a conversation or you just hoped that people would agree with your cognitive distortions?
Neat_Petite t1_j1vqin2 wrote
> Being called an incel that only speaks to his Grandma again in 3, 2, 1,..
Not at all. Your grandma called me just now, she said she won’t talk to your incel ass again.
BrockMiddlebrook t1_j1vlyl8 wrote
Facebook is thattaway, friend.
Just-a-Mandrew t1_j1vls0f wrote
People who think “woke culture” is something a media giant like Disney is incorporating into their content out of the kindness of their heart are misguided.
Disney spends millions of dollars in market research, focus groups, profit projections, data mining, etc. it’s all a choice they’re making based on what the market looks like. The market is a good indication as to what is popular in society and more likely to profit them.
That being said, woke content doesn’t immediately mean it’s going to be good content.
prof_the_doom t1_j1vmn9c wrote
>That being said, woke content doesn’t immediately mean it’s going to be good content.
100% this. You make a bad show or movie with a white, straight cast, and nobody is going to claim it failed because of "non-wokeness" or any other reason than bad writing/acting.
pdxtech t1_j1vllzm wrote
OP what is your definition of woke?
TurrPhennirPhan t1_j1vpqbu wrote
> “Anything that portrays women and the coloreds as people.”
-OP, probably
ayylmao95 t1_j1vmn4c wrote
Andrew Tate obsessive detected.
Pyramid_Head182 t1_j1vmie7 wrote
Is “wokeness” in the room with you right now?
dankins777 t1_j1vmhg0 wrote
“#woke is when women and POC characters get to exist” lol
[deleted] OP t1_j1vo2j2 wrote
[deleted]
lolsnacks t1_j1vm4b6 wrote
Please be satire
usmcplz t1_j1vnbbn wrote
Dear diary,
Today OP really sucked.
shr2016 t1_j1vmg49 wrote
Go crawl back under your rock, meathead
Weariervaris t1_j1vlps6 wrote
Because PMC POC Want jobs not taken by white men. Representation matters, but not in a way that reproduces bodies of work that are worth the sum of all of the work and parts involved. That part is missing.
vikingsquad t1_j1vmw29 wrote
Bizarre you seem to have an idea of what women should be like or are when you’re very clearly an incel no woman would ever go near.
hickaustin t1_j1vmhi6 wrote
Is your point: “these producers are using diversity as a selling point of their movie when they should be focusing on good story writing that just happens to be good for a diverse cast.”?
Or is it: “the diversity doesn’t make sense in these formats because of X, y, z”?
I’m really not sure your point here. I think a lot of the mentioned and alluded to shows/movies have flopped because they just have poor writing as opposed to the diversity of the cast. I personally don’t care who plays a role as long as they play it well.
Sarmelion t1_j1vmhuz wrote
If you think casting was the problem and not the fact that the people who made the Star Wars series didn't plan it out and didn't LIKE star wars, then you've missed the point.
bazzbj t1_j1vml36 wrote
Shows have been "woke" for a long time. Nowadays, people see a PoC/Female/LGBT lead and automatically call it "woke" and review bomb it without giving it a chance. Yes, there are shows that suck but there are maaaaany "non-woke" shows that also suck. What's your point?
fastornator t1_j1vmvap wrote
I love all the careful data collection and analysis you did in order to uncover this inverse correlation between wokeness and success.
lt_dan_zsu t1_j1vr342 wrote
A show and a movie that were both financial successes are two great data points in favor of OP's thesis. I'm surprised they didn't get their findings published in a peer reviewed journal.
DeaconoftheStreets t1_j1vmb8x wrote
Is Alien not “woke” by your definition? Why would a woman be working on a tug ship? And certainly she wouldn’t be physically capable of outplaying the xeno over the more athletic men???
Veratha t1_j1vmf8s wrote
If it bothers you this much to see people who aren’t white, cis, straight, and male, maybe it’s not the shows that are the problem?
night117hawk t1_j1vmhdg wrote
There is no woke agenda. Hollywood is trying to make money, plain and simple. It just so happens trying to appeal to different demographics with characters that people from all backgrounds can identify with is better at making money than having a mostly white cast with exclusively white male leads. The new Star Wars trilogy sucked balls but it’s not because of the cast. If they piss off a few of the “Reeee woke culture” people it’s not a big deal as evidenced by you clearly having watched these movies and shows still.
Gimlom t1_j1vml61 wrote
Lmao elves are totally famous for not being arrogant or know-it-alls real down to earth folks
wecangetbetter t1_j1vmn97 wrote
This is so stupid.
Do you know how many "un-woke" shows with predominantly straight white casts flop horrifically?
You're cherry picking examples and pretending like it's the norm.
bazzbj t1_j1vnvdo wrote
Exactly! There are MANY non-woke shows that have flopped. I guess I should cherry-pick those to push my "woke shows make money" argument just like they do huh? :P
Lurlex t1_j1vmpri wrote
“Woke” is a word I only hear from conservatives, to complain about it. The concept simply does not exist for the vast majority of people evaluating the media.
This is very much a controversy that’s playing out only in your own mind and the mind of every other right wing bitter butthurt incel.
“WOKE” is a thing to you and you only. The people you’re putting the label on have no idea that you even exist, and it has as much meaning to them as it would have to you if I suddenly started to refer to you only as “Beeble Bubby.”
In other words — none.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vncwc wrote
It’s called confirmation bias. Whenever you see what you consider a “woke” movie flop, you assume it’s because it’s woke. When “woke” movies do well or non “woke” movies flop, you ignore it.
UnepochalWynnea t1_j1vnrtl wrote
Wasn’t RoP one of the most watched Amazon originals? The new Star Wars was successful too, right? You’re saying these things have flopped but they haven’t. Whoever you’ve talked to or wherever you’ve gotten your information on what is or isn’t successful is likely biased.
I’m guessing your friends don’t like them… Of course your friends don’t think they’re “as good as the originals” and make up some reason about wokeness as to why they suck. When in reality they don’t like them because they’re new.
Diverse casts make for good media because they’re more relatable in a general sense. Even in high fantasy settings, there’s no reason humans and humanoid like creatures wouldn’t have varying skin tones.
And I’m confused on what you quantify as a “good feminine trait.” You’re looking for what YOU want in a female lead. And your opinion on what good or bad “female” traits are is subjective.
Besides imo, I hate “perfect” characters that do no wrong. A good, well rounded character will have flaws, like arrogance or naïveté. (This is a subjective view that is neither correct or incorrect!)
Also, the way you speak about female leads makes me think you don’t have a lot of lady friends.
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[deleted] OP t1_j1vmkun wrote
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[deleted] OP t1_j1vn4sw wrote
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[deleted] OP t1_j1vn6f9 wrote
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teddytwelvetoes t1_j1vodun wrote
If you don't like a show because it has women or black people, that's on you. If a show happens to be shit, it's not because of the inclusion of women or black people.
>Why not just write good shows, that portray females with good feminine values and traits (as an example Ripley from Alien or Eowyn from LotR)
Hilarious that you explicitly mention Alien. I watched it for the first time earlier this year with modern day goggles and wondered if man-children filled their diaper regarding Ripley back in the day. Didn't Alien become the all-time classic we all know and love partly due to Ridley Scott welcoming Sigourney Weaver's input? You lot would lose your shit if you read that headline for an upcoming movie from such a director. Tarantino taking tips from Margot Robbie would have the Andrew Tate bozos rioting in the streets. Genuinely don't get how one could love Alien and arrive at posting (gestures wildly) this on reddit years/decades later
Negligent__discharge t1_j1vok10 wrote
What is not being adressed in this post is where your ideas come from. And as a guess it would be a misinformation venue. You have got to start fact checking some of the easier stuff. Or you end up on /r/conspiracy issuing death threats. Dumping all your money into rich peoples wallets to "fight for you". Some how they are always fighting but never doing anything.
Fact check your sources.
JVortex888 t1_j1voqu2 wrote
"You can't tell me that a successful RoP series or a successful Star Wars would not have made more money. So what's the deal?"
Such brilliant analysis. What a moron
lt_dan_zsu t1_j1voubs wrote
Damn, someone should tell those Disney execs that their $4.4 billion trilogy was a flop, I'm sure they'll really want to hear what some random antiwoke redditor thinks. As far as RoP goes, maybe it flopped because the production looked terrible and didn't have to do with the 3 black characters (this is seriously what you're made about?). HotD similarly made several characters black, and was a massive success.
Do you realize how racist you sound describing virtually any non white character as woke? Furthermore, can you even tell me what woke means? Because I've seen some morons describe the new God of war game as "woke." It's a completely meaningless term that says way more about the person criticizing the media than the media itself. No one cares about your racism that you're trying to mask as media criticism.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vpad8 wrote
RoP wasn’t even a flop. It’s the most successful Amazon Prime original released and has been watched by over 100 million viewers.
lt_dan_zsu t1_j1vps86 wrote
Oh, I assumed it hadn't done well because I've heard absolutely no one talk about it. I guess it got renewed though..
Raincat21 t1_j1vowla wrote
Why do we need explanations for black characters? Do we need explanations for white characters to exists? What do you mean female traits? Are you seriously that offended and sensitive when a female “knows everything” and “can do anything”. God forbids women are capable of anything! Meanwhile, here you are mansplaining what is “woke” and what make “actual sense”. What gives you the right to tell people how they should act and behave? How are women and POC supposed to behave that make “actual sense” to you? Are you just sad that white straight men are not the good guys in movies/shows anymore? Why didn’t you just say that instead of trying to justify your own ignorances.
Superpickle7 t1_j1vp6zu wrote
Fragile 🤡
DocBrutus t1_j1vq3yk wrote
Man. I don’t have enough popcorn for this shit show…
dontreallycareforit t1_j1vq908 wrote
ITT: OPs bullshit narrative of “woke films bad” gets shit on HEAVILY so OP retreats like a coward. Their thoughts are inconsistent with reality and only tenable in small, vapid echo chambers.
Love to see conservative shit get dunked on so early in the morning. And on /r/television nonetheless. Really makes you happy.
SexyWampa t1_j1vwn0q wrote
You mean the most watched show on Amazon? That flop? Such a long and drawn out way of saying "I don't like brown people or women on my tv." Maybe it's time to empty out the piss jugs and take shower. Go outside, touch some grass...
[deleted] OP t1_j1vm3nc wrote
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zz23ke t1_j1vmr6c wrote
You know rn studios have contracts with production companies that in some cases have "affirmative action" to ensure diversity all throughout production. So it's not just on-screen, read the credits and then go back and watch Alien and read the credits.
The man's world died long ago brah
In the end it'll prob balance out but Hollywood changes slowly unless there is lots of cash to be made by changing. So IMO it's more cost effective to keep pushing mediocre "Woke" TV + Movie product. Some turn out great but some do feel forced.
lady_Monica t1_j1vmdbb wrote
They dare not make any other and probably hoping to brainwash us that’s it’s normal for every race to be in every scenario of your life.
There isn’t in mine, so am l abnormal?
ellegard127 t1_j1vmtf1 wrote
No body wants to hear about woke crap anymore. Woke just means that you are aware people are ripping you off and showing you bland fill in the blank writing for our shows now. Wish we had some creative thinkers putting out quality opposed to producers telling us what they we want to hear.
bazzbj t1_j1vnq7f wrote
You realize no one is forcing you to watch or like it, right? Just like many non-woke shows, you like or dislike them
capodecina2 t1_j1vmuw1 wrote
Its lazy. They dont try to push a story, they try to push an agenda. Its "woke" but the storylines arent good, its not engaging, its usually forced, and you feel that you *have* to like it or else something is wrong with you. From the producers perspective, they can churn out whatever garbage they want and if people don't like it, its because there is something wrong with the viewer. You cant disagree with that because then there is something wrong with you.
Give us a good story, give us something engaging. Give us something entertaining. Put THAT first and keep the social wokeness out of it. I don't give a damn if the lead is female or a person of color or gay or trans or likes furries or is autistic or whatever else the woke agenda of the day is. I want a good story. And if the people telling that story and acting out that story are from whatever "special population" then fine, I don't really care. If its part of the story, that's cool too. IF its a good story.
But don't tell me that I have to like some movie just because it had an all female cast or all gay director/producer, or all whatever whatever, and that if I don't like the movie - its not because it was a shit movie, it has to be because I'm not tolerant of something or other.
Id love to see something and say "now that was a cool story, a good movie, I liked it. and then someone tell me that "did you know that the writing team and producers and directors were all blah blah blah whatever?" Oh cool, no I didn't know that. Nor did I care, it was a good movie/show.
[deleted] OP t1_j1vndny wrote
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capodecina2 t1_j1vo3xi wrote
I assume you mean "you" in a general sense, and not specifically aimed at me personally. I don't recall personally doing any of what you outlined.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vpzkp wrote
That’s weird I’ve watched a lot of movies with black, women or gay leads and never felt like I had to like it.
capodecina2 t1_j1vr9sp wrote
I’ve seen a lot of shows that I didn’t enjoy, because I thought the story was weak only to be told that apparently the reason I didn’t find it enjoyable must’ve been because it had a female lead or something like that, which never occurred to me.
My point was that some shows/movies don’t put in the effort of developing good characters and good stories, and then when people don’t like it, they say its because the character wasn’t some old white dude or something. It’s an excuse for poor story writing.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vt2bn wrote
Literally no one disagrees outside extremist weirdos. Remember when Billy Eichner pulled this with Bros? Virtually everyone in any comment section was like no dude it was just a boring movie.
Just out of curiosity what did you think when it came out the RoP had a black elf?
capodecina2 t1_j1vtywb wrote
I have no idea what RoP is.
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vu4o5 wrote
Rings of Power, Lord of the Rings show on Amazon that’s been referenced several times in this post and comment section.
capodecina2 t1_j1vws22 wrote
Oh, thank you I was actually wondering. No I haven’t seen it. Been binge watching old Star Trek Deep Space Nine
HardDriveAndWingMan t1_j1vyhs7 wrote
Well if you have no opinion as you haven’t seen it then cheers. From what I remember a month or so before RoP was released it came out there was a black elf, and a lot of people were very mad about it and called it bad writing… for a show that none of them had seen yet. Always thought that was kind of funny and proof that a lot of people will say it’s the writing when it has nothing to do with the writing.
WordsAreSomething t1_j1vjvm9 wrote
Woke is when they make something you don't like. So that explains that.