Submitted by Bruinsrock11 t3_125m5ee in television
stoygeist t1_jecjy38 wrote
Reply to comment by bros402 in What is your opinion on the Quantum Leap reboot? by Bruinsrock11
I totally see that. He did something to cause the nuclear winter. I'd we accept that as fact, and we add it to what we already know, I think this could be the line of events.
- Ben did something to cause the nuclear winter. Possibly, he did something to Ziggy to end the spying, and there was a meltdown.
- Meltdown killed Addison and maybe Martinez's family. Or Martinez is just upset about the meltdown, and that's why he hates Ben. There is a 3rd possibility that I will get to.
- Ian has been waiting a long time for Ben to show up so they can fix the Quantum accelerator so Ben can go back in time to fix things.
- Ben can't go back because he's already in the middle of a leap, possibly he leaped into himself or maybe Martinez.
- Since Ben can't go back, Ian goes back in time into the bartender to warn Ben (solves the point of why Ian time traveled). This explains why the face the bartender sees is an older Ian
So now here where things may go off the rails and is unsupported speculation.
- A new point pops up about why they didn't they just go back and warn Ben about the meltdown and just pull the plug on the whole project?
- Maybe the reason is pre-Ben and is in Ziggy. The final destination could be the original leap with Sam.
- Ben added new code into Ziggy for this leap system of points to reach the final destination for a reason. Maybe that code is supposed to be there to do the spying? Maybe it caused the spying indirectly. Maybe it causes the meltdown.
- Of course, they should know why the meltdown happens in the future, so why not correct it? They know Ziggy is the mole, so why not correct that? Ben tells Janis, but not anyone else? Is it because Janis is off the grid, and she's the only one to keep the secret? Again, why not just pull the plug on Ziggy? The only logical explanation on why Ziggy is still the mole is because Ziggy was told by Ben to be the mole. Ben needs Ziggy to be able to track the original and the deviated timelines so that in the future, they have the info to give to Ben in the past so they know exactly which change causes the meltdown. Ian knows when Ben is supposed to appear in the future because of this. That's why he was waiting for Ben for a long time and not surprised to see him. (BTW, I'm using meltdown because you said it, and it is an easy single word to use to describe the future instead of an unknown future, nuclear winter resulting disaster. Meltdown is perfect.)
- I think Martinez is told of the impending meltdown so that he would help them fix things because, as we learned this week, Ben can not do it completely alone. He needs a second, non-holographic set of hands to help him.
- Also, maybe Martinez doesn't hate Ben. He was told to act that way to get the team to where they need to be. Also, Martinez said he was a pacifist. Why would a pacifist try to stop Ben or kill Ben? Why not kill Ben the first time they crossed paths? It's all planned and staged, that's why. He is doing what he was told and exactly when he needs to do it. We'll probably find out that he has helped in every single leap.
- If Ben has a helper via the imaging chamber. Where's Martinez's helper? Why can't Ben see him/her/it? Is it possible that Ben is his helper in the future? Maybe Ben can't see him because of it being himself, and it's some Quantum paradox. Or the handler is hiding away, so we can't see them. Maybe it's Ian. Or it's Janis. Who knows.
- Ian looks a bit older in the future, but Martinez is not that much older than modern day so Martinez is put into the accelerator sooner rather than later. I would also say that the military took over the project forcibly in thr near future and they put Martinez in to stop Ben, but that makes no sense. If it was true, then they probably would of had Mertinez kill Ben the first time they met and be over with it. And Martinez said he was going to win and get there first. Win what? Get where first? The future? The meltdown? The final destination that Ben is planning? I feel it's off, made to make Ben and the team have a sense of urgency. Plus, Martinez once again could have just ended it all in the old west. Just kill Ben and leap back home. No big event. Ben is lost in time. End of story. Martinez is going ro be critical to all of this.
This next episode should be really good and possibly headache inducing. And I believe they have already been renewed for 2 more seasons. I think I read that today.
bros402 t1_jecl36m wrote
> Where's Martinez's helper?
What if Martinez jumped in right when the meltdown/nuclear winter was about to happen and the helper didn't get in in time/helper died?
Or maybe they just developed a way to hide the hologram
stoygeist t1_jedbzzi wrote
Possible. Just because everything is destroyed in the future point, it doesn't mean it happened then. So definitely, it could be that he jumped in the past at the last second before meltdown. Like he was sent to save the day or even maybe Addison was being sent to save the day and an explosion as part of the meltdown kills her so Martinez jumps in to take her place at the last second.
So then it's 50-50 if he really does hate Ben. Again, it would be that he has a mission to save everything, and he's instructed to be mean, or he did lose someone or saw the death and destruction coming and he is pissed. Maybe even more so if he has to not kill Ben because Ben has to get to a certain point for whatever reason before he can be killed. Maybe the mental hospital had to play out first and that's why he tried to kill Ben at the end. Thing about that is Addison saw him, so they would know in the future he did that. So why let him get anywhere near the project?
The more I dissect it, the more contradictions I find I create. I feel like I'm missing something to tie it all together. If Ben causes it all, then why come from the future to tell Ben to leap? Is it because if he doesn't leap the Addison dies in a leap? And she's the one that causes the meltdown because she died? Martinez knows if Ben didn't do the work to revive the project then Addison would never of leaped and caused the meltdown? So far it fits. Well almost.
If all that is true then how did Ian know Ben was going to end up there at that time in the future? Without Ben being there. Then Ian had no way to go to the past to tell Ben to leap. Unless Ian is a hologram. Maybe it took years to find Ben in the future. In the meantime Addison is sent like it was planned in the first place and whatever she did, caused a war. That caused the meltdown. Since Ben is lost to time because relatively, they still hadn't found where he landed in the future, Martinez is sent to to try to fix whatever Addison couldn't. He lost a lot in the war so he hates Ben for even getting the project up again. That would mean that him and Ben have the same final destination and that Martinez just wants to get there first so he can save the world. But there lies another problem. It almost all fits, but not quite.
The first time Martinez saw Ben, he might be surprised. In his timeline, Ben is lost, so if he's lost, Martinez sees him not once, but multiple times. Why not mention to Ben, who Martinez knows for sure worked with Addison, to tell Addison what's going to happen in her future to prevent it? Or tell Addison himself? Martinez is still the odd piece that doesn't fit.
If they're trying to get to the same place to stop the meltdown, then why not work together for the greater good? Save Addison and save the world? I'm now guessing that something is going to be revealed next episode to make him fit. Either that or I really missed a clue somewhere.
bros402 t1_jeel4aa wrote
Ben might be the only reason the new Quantum Leap was able to function - which is why he couldn't be stopped before he leaped.
Maybe something even worse happens if Addison leaps instead of Ben? We have seen that she can be a bit more calculating than Ben, where he is a bit more emotional - maybe she would've made a decision that was good for her mission, but not good for everyone? Or maybe Addison killed Martinez (or almost killed him) in a leap, which really fucked things up, so Ian made it up that Addison died in a leap, because two leapers are needed at some point?
Either way, it seems like a military trained leaper was needed (Addison before Ben leaped, Martinez after he leaped).
If their goal is to stop the meltdown, maybe one of them will have to die to succeed - so Martinez is distancing himself from Ben
stoygeist t1_jeghubd wrote
This one is seriously long. I appologize in advance. I started this last night and finished it today after writing and re-writing. This the best I came up with:
I just rewatched the Martinez parts of the season and this is what I put together. I apologize in advance because e it is really long. (Note: I started this last night and It was so big, I emailed it to myself to edit and post.)
Martinez initially thought Ben was following him in their first meeting. So, he wasn't looking to stop Ben at all at that point.
He was willing to work for Magic and do any mission asked, no questions asked. When Magic visited him in 2022, which is before he leapt.
On the battleship, he told Ben that he would win. Win what? Be the first to get to Ben’s target destination?
When Janis came back in to the picture during the mental hospital episode, she said Ben had 3 chances to stop Martinez before Martinez kills Addison. The hospital was the last chance. If he couldn't stop Martinez, then Ben was to sacrifice himself to stop Martinez. In this case it was to prevent the girl from getting saved which would prevent both from leaping and they both would be stuck in the past.
When Ben is stabbed, Martinez said his orders were to stop Ben before they crossed again. That implies that someone is working with Martinez. The funny thing about that is we don't see the helper, which is strange because Martinez can see Addison. So is it because we're not meant to see who is helping or is it because there is no one and Martinez leapt just before the meltdown and was told to stop Ben by the third meeting or else Martinez will fail his mission? Then again 1st episode Ben who leapt was told about Martinez because he told Janis that he had 3 chances to stop Martinez. But Martinez wasn't surprised to see Ben and knew about Ben so how can that be?
I got the pacifist part wrong before. He was calling Ben a pacifist. Which ties into when Martinez was talking to Addison, he said he was there to do what Ben couldn't. I'm assuming his mission is this. But he could also of meant he was there to save the girl because Ben couldn't. Probably purposely written to be vague by the show’s writers to cause more mystery and confusion.
One thing to note is that in the hospital, he told Ben that Ben sabotaged his initial plan to save the girl. Does that affect anything? Is that the only sabotage that Ben needed to do? While the girl is saved, he technically did sabotage Martinez. Playing devil’s advocate, Ziggy predicted that Martinez had a 10% chance of saving the girl on his own. Maybe Ben had to get there to sabotage Martinez’s plan because it failed initially and the girl was lost.
Ian said around episode 5 that Ben was using Quantum gravity to jump further and further. And that maybe Ben wasn't trying to get to the past. He's trying to get to the future. Why would he do that or how would he know he needed to get there?
Ok so let’s go wild and start trying to work everything out.
Ben is now supposedly in the future. We don't know if it is the very distant future or the near future. We assume it's distant because Ian appears to be much older. He’s waited for Ben for a long time. We also assume this is Ian in the future. But we really don’t know yet. It could be Ian leaping into someone in the future. If he figured out Ben was leaping to the future then he could also figured out how to meet him there too. Ben would see him as Ian if he was Ian himself or if Ian was a leaper. Also, if Ian was a hologram.
We assume the meltdown is because of Ben because the writing so far is making it seem that way. It can be the result of anything really because we don't know the date he’s at. He might not even be the future. If it is a nuclear winter, the radiation fall out could be messing with ben’s quantum signature and that’s why they couldn’t find him. Remember, Martinez never said that he had to stop Ben from ending the world. He just said he had to stop Ben before they crossed paths again.
So how did we get to this point? If the meltdown is the future and it’s the result of the project then what I the order of events.
My guess, original timeline is Addison was the original leaper and she dies. Her death causes some disaster to happen because she died, or her death doesn’t stop it from happening. Now the military steps in and takes over and sends Martinez. His mission could be finishing Addison’s mission or helping Addison. He could have failed or succeeded, either way the world is worse off so Ian has to go back and warn Ben. Doesn’t explain why He wasn’t surprised about Ben leaping. The only way I can see for this to fit is that Martinez leaps after Ian did. I’m thinking that Maybe Ian knows Martinez was going to leap (for finish Addison’s/help Addison reason? Completely new reason?) and figured out that if Martinez succeeds then disaster will strike.
Ian leaps and warns Ben before Martinez can. Of course, that wouldn’t go unnoticed so now Martinez knows he needs to get there first. Which the idea of getting there first is stupid because time travel can be to seemingly specific point so one just needs a spot just before the other. But this is TV. As he progresses, his handler thinks that Ben is no threat at first then realizes that Ben needs removed/stopped during the Mental hospital episode. That could be why Martinez waits till then to try and kill Ben. Something happens and we end up at meltdown. Maybe Martinez succeeds and destruction ensues. Maybe he fails and the world is worse off. Maybe the meltdown is deliberate destruction of Ziggy which is nuclear powered and causes a nuclear winter. Could even be Ziggy fighting back to not be shutdown permanently? If Ziggy’s the mole does that mean he’s alive and wants to stay alive? Does ben “arrive too late” and has to leap again to fix that? The bigger question is when leaps into the meltdown aftermath, is he walking out of the imaging chamber? If he leapt into someone who was in the chamber, who was it? Also how did Ian see it was Ben if he wasn’t also a leaper. He had no reason to think it was Ben at all. Not yet at least. And did anyone notice that both Ben and Ian are wearing Imaging chamber outfits under their “coats”? If I’m right about the outfits then Ben didn’t leap into the future, he leapt home.
Humor me and let’s assume I’m right. Ben leapt home. Maybe this was his destination all along and he was too late. Or maybe whatever Martinez did, caused the meltdown. Now what? Do Ben and Ian work together using the old 1st generation Ziggy/accelerator/chamber to send Ian back in time to tell Ben to leap using different info? If so, then maybe Ian didn’t leap before Martinez and Martinez leaps in the relative future to the start of the series. While doing his mission, Martinez and probable handler come across Ben and they use Ziggy to figure out that Ben is out to stop him for an unknown reason. Maybe in that timeline where Ben had not leaped, it was Ben who opposed Martinez’s mission and Martinez assumes Ben’s there to stop him and leapt somehow which is why he wasn’t surprised. They can’t stop him because they needed Ben for Quantum leap to function like u/bros402 said. It weirdly fits now.
Of course, there is one more possibility. What if the final destination was set to be the plane in the last episode? And they needed that leap to get ben to return home after the meltdown? It was the only way to ensure Ben lived to survive the disaster because in the original timeline ben dies in the meltdown. He knew all along that if he didn’t stop Martinez at the third point in time then he would have to go to the future to hopefully be able to build another system so he could go back and try to stop Martinez again. If he had stopped Martinez in the 3rd meeting, then he would have been able to leap back home. But he didn’t’ so he has to sacrifice himself as the last ditch effort by going into the future and hoping there was a way for him to go back and fix things. That was the only way to ensure Ben survives but there was no guarantee he would survive the future, or be able to go back in time again or anything really. That means maybe Ian was the one to leap at the last second before meltdown to go back and do the warning. When he comes back it is also post disaster as well.
It's all highly complicated and probably all full of shit, but the last theory works better than everything else. All the stuff up to the 3rd meeting fits. Ian is the last minute leaper in this case. Ben and Addison die in the original line. Martinez caused the meltdown. Ian goes back to warn Ben to get him to stop Martinez or else they meet in the distant future to try again.
bros402 t1_jeglnwf wrote
well, damn
We'll see what happens next week - I won't watch until Tuesday, though, so no spoilers please.
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