Ever since i saw the gif of Ian mcshane in Hercules go around I have been thinking of this show. Thinking of it makes me feel like a kid. It’s the last show I remember watching before going to college

I remember really enjoying this when it came out. Probably would have been more successful on a streamer if it was released in 2019 instead of 2009. Network television was not the place for this kind of show.

Absolutely. If a streamer made this now people would go wild for it.

Such a weird, cool concept to have gotten made at all though.

For folks who haven't seen it - it's a very loose rework of the story of the biblical David's rise to kingship, set in a sort of monarchy ruled modern US-esque state. Lots of political manoeuvring and weird omens, with Ian McShane as the current king. Somebody declares war on God and means it very literally.

I remember liking it. It was different.

I think about this show often, mostly because it gave us Sebastian Stan.

A couple highlights from the article:

-One of the NBC presidents having virtually no recollection or interest in the show.

-The showrunner learning to never compromise from Bryan Fuller. Because Fuller's methods always make for such smooth productions.

-NBC reusing some of the shows abandoned marketing concepts for... The Cape. Fucking lmao.

And that’s why it died on network tv. Network is for safe bets (cop shows, lawyer shows, hospital shows) anything outside of those almost always die

I could never get into this, even though it has a real cult following. Not as well written as people suggest imo.

Yeah, the writing definitely reached for high concepts while being very clunky. The actors did a really good job which may have fooled people into thinking the writing was better.

Thanks for sharing. This was a very weird, challenging, wild show I wouldn't mind revisiting. I remember watching and thinking it would never survive, but you had to admire them for taking a big swing.

It's a weird juxtaposition of a network show with a prestige cable/streaming show.

Ambitious and unique premise, decent production values, Ian McShane acting the hell out of everything, and some really interesting plot points. Running directly into network budgets and network trope plot points. There are episodes with incredibly good and aggressively bad writing all in one.

I remember listening to the director commentary for the pilot with a few producers and Ian McShane. They recorded it for the DVDs long after the show was cancelled and wrapped. McShane said he got talked into it by the show runner because it was going to be better than typical network tv drivel. Then McShane keeps saying "should've been on cable, this was too good for a network, should not have been on a network," for the rest of the commentary haha.

Haven't read the article yet but looking forward to it. This is such an odd little known show that I never see enough discussion about.

I think the best quote from the oral history is in the footnotes: "Jeff Zucker did not respond to a request for comment" lmao

Does anyone know if they ever revealed why the character Andrew Cross was exiled?

There was a handful of shows from 2008-2012 that would have done better in 2022 on a streaming platform.

Stuff like "Awake", "Flashforward", "Caprica", "Dollhouse", "Party Down", "Terminator Sarah Connor Chonicles", "Pushing Daisies", and even "Jericho" though it was earlier than the rest. I remember shows like "Shark" and "The Event" too had some buzz but also had concepts better suited for binging on a streaming service.

The thing that really struck me about it - and made it feel way too weird for Network tv - was that for a clearly biblically infused story, it doesn't really feel like it's trying to sell you a "message" at all. It feels like what those mythologies would feel like to the figures in them. When weird shit happens to you, personally, in the Book of Samuel or whatever, you just have to kind of roll with it, because you live in a world where God himself crowned the king you're paying tax to. It's not a fable, just matter of fact.

It's unusual, because it feels like treating the human, political bible stuff the way shows usually prefer to treat all the angels and demons stuff, or like a big Viking saga or something.

I had an idea for a podcast, I’m sure it’s been done already but I haven’t found it, where I’d go through shows like the ones you listed and add some others like Black Donnellys and Kings, and kind of do a recap/history. Similar to the Blank Check format. Spend a few episodes recapping the show, talk about production, etc.

But I don’t have the time or skill to make it work. Maybe some day.

God in the show is extremely subtle yet omnipresent in everything. Everyone accepts it as a matter of fact, yet as a character, God rarely shows up except to tip the scales one direction or the other. He communicates entirely through prophets and signs that aren't too overt and aren't too subtle. The one episode where satan showed up was interesting too since she clearly has the power to rain down curses and make deals with the humans too.

The writing never quite reaches the point where they could adequately explore these themes though. Definitely too high concept for network television writing constraints.

Not that there are actual writing constraints besides content rules, but network TV just almost always feels like it's been tied down to be Basic AF.

For some reason, I didn't even get the biblical allegory until a few episodes in.

Despite David vs Goliath, I guess I've just heard the name Goliath used in too many things to automatically associate it with the Bible.

Mostly Gargoyles.

There is an article on tvline regarding 2023 pilot season. You nailed 90% of the new shows.

https://tvline.com/lists/pilot-season-abc-cbs-cw-fox-nbc-2023-2024/abc-pilots-2023-2024/

I usually read them to see if there is a new sci fi show on the horizon.

Also lots of The Good xxxx or spin offs of The Good yyyy

Everyone (rightly) talks about Ian McShane and Sebastian Stan, but Eamonn Walker, Susanna Thompson, and Dylan Baker were all fantastic too.

The scene where Samuels (Walker) tells Silas (McShane) that he has lost the kingdom is one of my favorite TV moments ever, as is the scene where Silas reveals he knows Jack (Stan) is gay. Both are in the first episode, I think.

It never actually had a chance. It needed something like 2.5 rating in the 18-49 demo for it to be successful and there was no way in hell it was going to get right out of the gate (and on Sunday nights going up against Fox animated shows).

By '09 there was simply no way for a broadcast network to launch that sort of big budgeted drama and give it enough time, support and exposure for it grow like AMC, FX or HBO could do for their prestige dramas, and I honestly don't think there ever was time NBC or any other broadcast network could've done it. It took until the final half season of Breaking Bad for it to be a legit hit, Game Of Thrones also took a few seasons to turn into a blockbuster, same with Sons of Anarchy and Mad Men was never a hit in the first place.

Pushing Daisies would've still been canceled after 2 seasons if it was on Netflix though.

I liked it but I do remember thinking that the marketing didn’t really match the show.

6 seasons and a movie!

The advertising was so bad! I have the show on DVD and in the commentary, the creators say NBC was really supportive of the biblical angle while they were making it but we're scared to advertise it that way so I remember the ads were like "from a producer of Heroes" (which was in season 3 and crashing and burning like nothing else) and a bunch of random imagery of butterflies and flags.

Interestingly, it was one of the more expensive shows made at the time, with a FOUR MILLION per episode budget! (laughably low now, of course.)

By the way, the same writer/director team are working on a Bioshock show

I'm not sure if it's still there but for at least a decade it was on nbc.com, in the "Throwback" section. It was also released on dvd

Something can be well made and you not liking it. Not sure you have the right to judge what others think just because you put IMO. Truffles are not for me, that’s one thing, Truffles are overrated and dosent taste as good as people suggest, IMO. See? That’s arrogant AF.

Get over it

I think “Hannibal” would fit on this list as well.

Says the person who came on a post about a series to specify he didn’t like it. Gtfo

Nah it'd have gotten 3 at least... and end on a huge cliffhanger. RIP Santa Clarita Diet. Never forget.

Oooh. I can’t wait to read this article. I’ve had so many questions about Kings.

Pushing Daisies never stood a chance being so bright and kitschy, high concept, and getting ruined by the writer's strike. But it was great.

Kings also never stood a chance being so high quality and being on NBC. Had it even premiered a few years later, it'd have gone to Netflix or an early Prime show. It was too good for broadcast TV.

I watched it a couple years ago, I really liked it.

I loved Kings. It deserved better and probably would have done better on another network or service like HBO or something. It was ahead of its time.

Sebastian Stan was in The Covenant a couple of years before Kings. Just saying. I know it isn’t everyone’s cup of tea lol.

>on which NBC bet it's prestige future

My recollection is that NBC didn't really bet anything on it, and signaled very early on that they'd given up on it. they did no promo, and cancelled it almost immediately. If they wanted to have a prestige future they should have alt least tried a little bit.

I loved this show, but it was really weakened by the lead actor, dude was duller than cardboard. But this is what made me an Ian McShane fan, dude was a FORCE.

Loved flash forward, The Event .. damn cliffhangers .. glad Jericho had the comic books to finish the series

Loved this show

I worked on this show! Haven’t thought about it in years. Ian McShane was a total diva in ADR sessions. I suppose he’s earned the right.

If you go to 2007, you have Moonlight which missed the Twilight Vampire Renaissance by like a year.

Where can I watch this??? It doesn’t appear to be on peacock

Well the president of NBC at the time did. She championed the deal at NBC, gave them the budget they needed and was going to put them in the coveted Thursday night ER spot.

Then she was unceremoniously fired, the network dropped all marketing for the show, and moved it to Sunday nights, which was basically the worst night for prime time network TV viewings (which is hilarious considering now that’s HBO’s big night for their prestigious shows).

This reminds me of why Arrested Development didn't work as a single cam network comedy *AT THAT TIME*. Then, it changes everything.

It's not on any streaming from what I can find on JustWatch. Have to buy it online or pick up a DVD set.

I first watched it back in the good old days of Hulu. When you didn't have to sign in, they put full seasons of shows up, it was extremely easy to navigate with tidy spreadsheet layouts, and only one ad played at a time. Those were good times.

Oh man I miss old hulu. My dad got us on that shit when we were still getting dvd’s from Netflix and getting our music from rhapsody.

There’s actually an old video store not far from me, and they rent dvd/vhs players for cheap too. Going to check it out, they have an extensive catalog. Thanks!

iirc, in Australia this was only shown on free tv at around 1am. So, that sucked. Else I really wanted to check it out.

And I get a bunch of people agreeing and disagreeing agreeably.

But then there’s you.

🤫

Loved the show. You don’t hear too much about it these days

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I remember The Cape.

I remember watching the first episode, realizing it was dumb, and never thinking about it again.

I genuinely love that show. It's always on my list of shows I wish would've gotten more seasons.

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Wow I'd never heard of this before but what a fascinating premise! A weird mix of mythical bible story palace intrigue and like Succession-type modern political machinations, even now I think this would be a bold new concept for television to run with. On 2009 network tv? Didn't stand a chance. Shame because there is so much potential in this idea.

I call that the homoerotic version of The Craft. So much baby oil...

Ah, I loved this show. I even own it on DVD. Loved the faux-Shakespearean dialogue. Most of the cast were phenomenal, although the weakest element was David and the Princess' romance storyline. Way too network trope-y. A show like Kings would have been way better received now than on NBC circa 2009. Succession meets Game of Thrones meets the Old Testament? Come on!

But you have those rare examples like Lost or Heroes. Kings was a show along those same lines, with a mythology. I guess the ratings just weren’t there. The show wasn’t perfect but it was so different and I just wanted to learn more about the world they were building. Definitely a show where I wish I could visit some alternate timeline where they ended up making 5 seasons or so of it.

I remember back when it was cancelled people were praying that SciFi would pick it up. I think it would have been a good fit for them.

It sucks that they wrote “the complete series” on the DVD case instead of “season 1”. Definitely wasn’t the complete series ;___;

The six seasons and a movie quote which originated on Community was about The Cape.

I think it was well acted and had heart. Maybe it was dumb but they tried to make it fun at least. Sometimes it is OK to be dumb.