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goomyman t1_j4uxwkv wrote

Reply to comment by ElemLight in Dutch Students using ChatGPT to finish homework; Teachers aren't noticing by Parking_Attitude_519

Homework drills lessons into you.

It’s repetitive and boring especially if you know the material but even still it makes you faster at it and memorize it.

It really depends on your personality and how fast you pick things up. You claim you got Bs in everything, you probably would have got As doing homework.

The fact that you think Bs are good enough and didn’t do homework says more about what you think of schooling and learning in general than homework.

Also yes I think the emphasis on homework is pretty dumb but I also think US schools agree with you as my daughter’s elementary schools ( moved ) had a no tears official policy for parents which mean don’t force your kid to do homework if they cry and then just a straight up no homework at all policy.

Honestly, I’m not a fan because my daughter will go to middleschool without a foundation where she has to just suck it up and do the work mindset which is needed to do well in school and honestly in life too if you work for anyone else. In the real life you get assigned stupid things and while there is often some room for constructive criticism in the end you have to do it anyway.

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GoldWallpaper t1_j4vymqz wrote

> Homework drills lessons into you.

I never did a second of homework in school, and still aced every test. If you're a moderately smart kid, homework does nothing. School is based around the lowest common denominator, which is dumb kids. (College and grad school, otoh, were great learning experiences.)

This shouldn't be surprising if you've ever worked with Education majors at the university level. I did over a decade of research with people of all majors, and Ed. majors (including seniors!) were the only ones to proudly tell me they'd never written a paper or read a book in college. I'm not saying that all teachers are dumb, but the profession really attracts the bottom of the intellectual barrel, and the coursework is not rigorous.

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goomyman t1_j4y4bv5 wrote

It’s not really though. Schools have high cap programs, High schools have running start. There are tons of clubs you can join. You get what you put into it.

Sure there are some hoops to jump through which have a lot of boring homework and some garbage mandatory classes but people are kidding themselves if they think this doesn’t continue into college where your paying to take learn useless skills with double the homework. And of course when you get a job and your paid poorly to do busy work or often just pretend to be busy until you can build up a resume where you can put some real thinking skills to the job.

Everyone has to go through the boring hoops to prepare you for life that is full of boring hoops.

It’s not like I don’t get it. I had writing teachers demand 10 page essays and then grade without reading them. Everyone has these stories. However these situations teach kids how to prioritize and how to deal with varieties of situations and varying degrees of bs.

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ElemLight t1_j4w4tsi wrote

Interesting. I'm from Germany btw and I love learning new things. I just didn't like they way learning was done in schools. This kind of short term learning was never a thing for me and I took tests asy well tests, to see how much stuff i understood from just paying attention in class and asking questions. (I was always a Why-type. I couldn't memorize Pi until I looked up why it was this exact number and what it stood for in a more practical sense).

Today I am working in IT as a consultant for multinational companies and manage around 100 people. I wanted to do more tech stuff, but, as i was told, i was put in operations and co trolling because I understood the project better than the tech guys in shorter time.... I miss repetitive Tasks tho. Just let me edit 200 users in bulk....

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lucidrage t1_j4vh8vo wrote

> had a no tears official policy for parents which mean don’t force your kid to do homework if they cry

You guys are spoiling the gen ZZs

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CaPtAiN_KiDd t1_j4xu2on wrote

Kids learn differently. Rote system of learning doesn’t require you to actually think, only memorize. After a certain age past reading, writing, and basic arithmetic, they now have the ability to pursue things that pique their intellectual curiosity.

This is the point where they see through the bullshit and realize they’re just doing busy work in a juvenile daycare center.

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goomyman t1_j4y2u81 wrote

Realizing bullshit and doing it anyways is actually a strong life lesson. Real life is full of bullshit tasks and the ability to do it anyway will actually help you get and maintain a job.

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Distinct_Target_2277 t1_j4y5cdq wrote

I never did homework and was checked out most of the time at school but tested really well (90%+). I even had a teacher tell me that I would never keep a job because of your same thinking. It was completely untrue. I didn't do homework or pay much attention because I was not being engaged. I was there to learn not to do busy work. I've maintained full time employment for 2 decades now because work is where you have to do bullshit, not in school.

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HugeAnalBeads t1_j4v3g5q wrote

You give school too much credit

Can't speak for dutch schools, but north American schools dont teach you shit. And homework should be abolished. Let kids be kids when they go home. They will learn more actually useful lessons socializing after school than quadratic equation homework. Homework places unneeded stress upon entire families, and kids that have to help raise families due to missing parents, or kids that go to the mall to meet other kids are penalized with, as you say, a B grade.

I can argue homework dumbs kids down. The fact you think a B isnt good enough shows me you're unaware your surgeon likely had all Bs. Same with the civil engineers and architechs that built the bridge you commute over twice a day.

Edit: here you go. Studies suggesting otherwise

https://www.edutopia.org/no-proven-benefits

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/is-homework-helpful/

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/ed/12/01/are-you-down-or-done-homework

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venustrapsflies t1_j4v6tdk wrote

I mean I hated homework, especially writing, but I have no clue how I would’ve learned to write an essay otherwise.

And with few exceptions students can’t learn complex and abstract concepts without practicing on their own. You get rid of homework and you make math and writing illiteracy worse.

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schmaydog82 t1_j4wngxn wrote

I feel like being able to write an essay isn't exactly a useful skill for most people, I think this may be a bad example. I'm definitely not mad it was something that I was taught however

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venustrapsflies t1_j4wwawr wrote

It’s not the essay writing per se, but organizing and presenting an argument along with general writing skills. There may be a lot of people who can get by without these skills, but their lives would be better if they had them.

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HugeAnalBeads t1_j4va3th wrote

If you cant learn these things in the 2 hours a day, every day on these subjects, then that is a failure of your teacher or curriculum

You're suggesting 10 hours a week on essay writing is useless, but taking it home and doing the 11th hour without a teacher, is the difference between knowing an essay and not?

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Extreme_Stuff_420 t1_j4v5dk7 wrote

Do your homework kid

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sketchy_ai t1_j4vbhu0 wrote

Your comment reminded me of an old joke :)

What do you call the person who graduated dead last at medical school?

...

...

...

Doctor.

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HugeAnalBeads t1_j4vazs7 wrote

Why? Numerous studies have suggested homework is harmful and doesn't work.

These children are basically full time at school. If these things cant be properly taught in the 32 to 40 hours during the week; then that curriculum should be rewritten

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PilotMuji t1_j4w99lj wrote

Have you read your links?

Your first source is an opinion and literally has a grammar mistake in the 2nd sentence of the excerpt.

Your second source highlights how there’s a debate on if homework is helpful. It mentions that the amount of homework in 6-8 yr olds increased from 8 minutes to 22 minutes, but showed no correlation in achievement. It then goes on to say that educators still think homework is necessary as they wouldn’t be able to fit in all the critical material in a school year if students weren’t practicing at home.

Your third source literally says that quality homework is needed. Too much homework is bad, but eliminating homework totally would disadvantage low income families.

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HugeAnalBeads t1_j4wd8ee wrote

>educators still think homework is necessary as they wouldn’t be able to fit in all the critical material in a school year if students weren’t practicing at home

This isnt a case for homework. This is an example of a poor curriculum. Which is what I've said in every comment.

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PilotMuji t1_j4wdq1n wrote

So you pick out one sentence out of everything I wrote. And then also argue against something that a link that YOU posted said.

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HugeAnalBeads t1_j4we56j wrote

Dude I dont give a shit

You convinced me. Let the gimps do quadratic equations at night instead of socializing. Especially the ones with one parent that have way more responsibilities around the household. Fail those fucking kids they need to appreciate the extra 2 hours of homework after doing an entire 8 hour shift at school.

These dummies shouldve done their homework

https://in-finland.education/homework-in-finland-school/

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PilotMuji t1_j4wf6us wrote

You don’t give a shit that your rebuttals fail to support your claims? Why did you even comment in the first place if not to convince others or at least have constructive debates?

Who says that we should ignore and fail students with such disadvantaged lives that they literally don’t have time to do homework? Do you think the solution is to abolish all homework for everyone, or handle these scenarios on an individual basis? At least from my anecdotal experience, there were programs and support resources that tried to target those specific individuals and other types of disadvantaged students.

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HugeAnalBeads t1_j4wj2hs wrote

No I dont give a shit because I dont have a horse in the race. I'm just trying to advocate for children in single family homes who have more responsibilities than you did.

Imagine pushing this aggressively for little children to do more work after putting in an entire shift at school

Its fuckin bonkers. Kids are more depressed than they have ever been. Lets load those serfs up with more useless shit when they could be socializing and learning actual skills they will need in the future.

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PilotMuji t1_j4wki0d wrote

What am I pushing aggressively? That we need to load up kids with unmanageable amounts of homework every day? All I've done is point out how your sources don't support your arguments. Why are you making up things that I haven't said, and made assumptions about my life that you can't possibly have known? Why am I being brought into the picture at all? My personal life is not relevant to this discussion.

Is it little children who are doing quadratic equations now? How old is a "little" child in your definition? If it's elementary school, your own source says that 6-8 year olds have about 22 minutes of homework per day. Those 6-8 year olds are definitely not doing quadratic equations.

Listen man, I'm all for reducing the amount of homework students get, sure. Keep advocating for children in single-parent families, more power and respect to you. But your arguments and sources are all over the place. Quite frankly, they don't form a coherent nor persuasive argument at all.

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CharlySB t1_j4yfzc0 wrote

Maybe he should have done his homework when he was in school.

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