That’s only because the BMW iX2 isn’t out yet. BMW is set to sell hundreds.

Hundreds? I'm pretty sure BMW needs to sell quite a few more than that

Somebody is looking for an out for their Tesla stock

Then Elon took over twitter

And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling reddit user!

You're welcome Europe.

Why? Are gas prices that high where it becomes such an attractive option compared to a hybrid like a Prius? Is the model y comparatively cheaper than other crossovers than in the US? Some sort of tax incentive? Average wealth higher?

I’m genuinely curious and don’t know enough about the EU economy.

Not anymore.

Among many reasons, gas is very expensive in Europe, much of it is cities that are poorly suited for combustion vehicles (city driving is inefficient, hence burning more gas), many governments are outlawing the sale of new consumer combustion vehicles in a few years to combat climate effects of combustion vehicles (so many people are getting ahead), to facilitate this many counties has increased taxes on combustion vehicles (IIRC Norway or Sweden has like 100% tax on combustion vehicles), so electric vehicles are better positioned price wise in some countries.

You will find a really negative narrative here, but it’s a really great car. The size is very functional, the tech is great, it’s very comfortable, and range is very high. Tesla still tops the industry in customer satisfaction.

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I completely understand that. I’m just surprised that such an expensive car is the top selling car in Europe. There’s something more to it. It’s 3 times the cost of a Prius here in the US. I can’t see the gas and possible service savings ever covering the difference not even including interest payments on the higher valued car.

I understand that but we’re talking about a car 3 times the cost of a Prius. Unless you can foot a much larger down payment you’re paying significantly more monthly in just interest payments that you’re never getting back. I’m having a hard time seeing where the savings come from.

Tax incentives makes sense but is just Sweden and Norway enough to skew the results for all of Europe?

I completely understand the appeal of the model y but it’s way out of my price range.

I think the biggest issue with the Prius is just it's Dorkyness.

It's societally considered one of the least cool, rock bottom things you can buy. Where Tesla's may be unreliable, but they're atleast super cool.

When I bought my Tesla Y in early ‘21 it was about double the cost of a Prius. I work in construction management with some very long commutes and the math worked in its favor when I compared gas savings to larger car payments. Added bonus is I can charge at work for free most days as well, but that didn’t factor into my decision to buy because that can always go away. But I think they have more expensive in the time since. Prius is also much smaller, so the closer comparison would be the Rav-4 hybrid

I have been thinking of buying in. The PE ratio is starting to look good for a company growing that fast.

I thought that the quality reviews on this particular model were quite poor. Has this stuff gotten a lot better?

Initial quality that also includes cosmetic defects can be very different than overall customer satisfaction where Tesla excels.

I know they do with the Model S in particular. I just have not heard the same about the 3/Y.

People don’t buy it for the cost savings. As much as people harp that Tesla isn’t a “luxury” brand, a big part of its market is taken from customers who would otherwise buy BMW, MB, etc.

It’s an overall brand rating. X and S are now such a small portion of Tesla sales that they probably don’t factor much into the ratings.

Pardon?

This is getting downvoted to oblivion and it’s statistically true write up 🤣

He technically took over at the end of October.

Hopefully, their P/E ratio should be soon at the level they deserve. 6.76 and not 37.65.

I have to imagine that part of it is the fact that Tesla has so few models.

Since other manufacturers have what, 10, 15 different models to choose from, they could sell 10x as many cars, but the model Y could still be the bestseller.

If someone wants to buy a Tesla, they get the Model Y.

The curve has got to have time to turn

I mean Europeans buy mercedes and land rover. They hardly have good taste since those vehicles have some of the worst quality records in history. So this feels about right.

December numbers aren't out yet

Yeah, that's basically the reason.

Teslas are still a speck of dust compared to the rest of the car market, it's just this single model gets sold more than the hundreds of other models on the market.

Even if the number are like 100 Model Y and 99 of each other car on the market, it would still be #1 even though overall it's not even a dent in the full picture.

When are any one of those status symbols the top selling cars in any area?

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You mean the super reliable and well known news group “inside evs . com” might have a motive to push Tesla numbers?

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They want elon to fail because he is brave enough to go against the grain

Taxes are so incredibly high in the EU and EVs have substantial VAT and registration exemptions to the point where a Prius would be the same price as a Tesla Model Y in some countries.

You can get a brand new Prius OTD for ~30k USD in most of the US, but you aren't getting a Prius for less than 45k EUR (50k USD) in most of Europe, and then you also have to pay 8 dollars per gallon to fill it up.

Imagine if you had to choose between a 50k Prius or a 55k Tesla (after subsidies), and you can see why these higher end EVs are doing so well.

It is a consolidation effect. The top monthly car in Europe is typically a compact car selling about 15K units. There is just not anything in the Model Y's league in terms of size/price in the market right now. A base Y in Germany is 54K euro. An ID.4 seems to be about 44K, but is significantly smaller. Now that production is fully underway it takes demand from a lot of other classes. That has been part of the sales success in the US. Prior brands of Tesla owners in the US range from Toyota to Mercedes.

I feel so sorry for these consumers because… Tesla won’t survive Musk’s dishonor.

to put your mind at ease, Inside EV article just quotes from a generic car website: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-model-y-passes-vw-golf-europes-top-seller

not what reddit wants to hear it seems.. 😅

Consumer Reports - 14 Dec 2022 - Tesla and Nissan Make the Most Reliable Electric Vehicles

> The relatively strong reliability of the Model 3 is unique among Tesla’s lineup: Its other models remain below average. Closely related to the Model 3, the newer Model Y has improved in recent years but still shows some suspension issues and body hardware problems associated with closing the hatch, and paint and trim. Owners have reported problems with the air suspension on the higher-end Tesla models.

it seems ModelY still has to catch up to Model3 in overall quality.

Ahh, thanks for the point about the 3. I didn't know that it was doing better, that's nice to hear.

Thank you! That makes a lot of sense.

Yes because Tesla is trash and junk to it's competitors. I'm not gonna fan girl over some idiot privileged billionaire with and his trash cars.

That’s not even a decision at that point lol

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>Tesla is trash and junk

>this is your feelings

I agree that’s a fairly emotionally charged way to put it, but there’s also this-

“Last year, Consumer Reports ranked Tesla, the electric vehicle manufacturer with a market capitalization of over $1 trillion, 27th out of 28 brands [for reliability]”

Source https://www.hotcars.com/truth-about-tesla-reliability/

That's one model not Tesla and they have so few models it isn't sterchted out between 150 car models of other brands. This is the fact.

Europeans jumping on the Tesla bandwagon just as Americans start to realize how crappy they are.

You mean the Tesla demographic?

I'd just like them to kick out Musk so they can have some actually competent leadership rather than a CEO who is now spending all of his time driving Twitter into the dirt.

I thought it is known that Tesla delivers all their cars at one time.

Just look at the numbers in October. The Model Y is not even in the top 10. Or you can look at the yearly numbers...

One month is not a good timeframe to compare

Because Tesla delivered all their model Y in November. Look at the statistics for October, you won't find the Model Y in the top ten

Well for one month it is true, but if you expand your horizon and look at the numbers from the other months/the whole year. model Y is far away from the first place ...

Well, for example in Belgium, most of the relatively expensive cars are leased by the company. The leasing price depends on lots of things, including taxes, running costs and resale value. This is why back when I lived there, I had a nice mercedes C in diesel in the same budget as some nondescript hyundai in petrol. I now see many of my colleagues, depending on the job level, ordering Tesla 3, Y, Polestar or BMW i series cars.

In China Tesla Model Y ranked as the most reliable EV in China where there actually is competition. Also Consumer Reports is run by an ex Ford Executive and receives a large portion of funding from the Ford Foundation and GM.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-y-china-reliability-quality-survey/amp/

It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web.

Maybe check out the canonical page instead: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-y-china-reliability-quality-survey/

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Gas is like $7/gal there. The economics is much better.

I mean in Germany you can get like $9000 in incentives and tax savings, and then you go about saving $700 a year in gas, less maintenance and helping the environment.

Also a lot of the cars in Germany are company cars, and there is a price range built in to the contract.

All the cars in the showroom of the the local Toyota dealer here (in Germany) are hybrid. They sell pretty well.

Yeah, nobody said that they don't sell well.

It's just one car. It has this effect where people who buy an EV are disproportionately likely to buy this one car.

Non-EV crossovers as a whole massively outsell it. Also VW sells more EVs than Tesla does in Europe also, it just is spread across multiple models.

But if you are just looking at which car sold the most it's that one.

It won't last. All the European car companies are targeting Tesla and making gains. Another car (likely from a European make) will take over to become the most sold car in Europe.

I spent past summer traveling through Europe and I have not seen many Teslas but I've seen at least 15 different electric cars I had no idea existed (and some looked amazing)

I got a Y in October. A year before I test drove a 2020 Y—it was shit. The Y I got is one of the nicest cars I’ve ever been in. Spartan minimalism aside, the interior is incredibly comfortable and well put together. I’d say they’ve improved the quality a lot, but I also got an Austin built Y where I know the original Fremont built Ys were dogshit.

Great car, world really needs to mass use electric cars or generation of our kids is f..

BUT ELON BAD MAN

That’s why the title says November

Scooby doo by doo!

Weird, that’s crazy if true. Do they just put them all on a single ship? Is it somehow cheaper? Otherwise I’d assume they ship them as they roll off the production line

But why?

its 3 times the cost of a prius here in NA, not really anymore as the new one starts at like 30k.

In Europe, your paying 8 bucks a gallon or even more, the VAT on ICE cars is really high to the point where its actually more expensive to buy a Prius than a Model 3 upfront. Then you get into the whole cost of electricity versus gas, little maintenance (no oil changes, less break weak, no transmissions, etc)

Majority of Europeans pay out the ass for gas because most European countries don't really product any of their own.

Like gas cars are so absurdly expensive in Europe, a base camry hybrid is FUCKING 61K USD: https://www.toyota.dk/nye-biler/camry

The model Y is 50000 Danish Krone more which is 5k USD and the model 3 standard range plus is cheaper and this is without any incentives. So in large swathes of Europe, its cheaper to buy a expensive ass Tesla than a toyota base trim upfront.

NA is kinda spoiled with its super cheap prices. Everything is so cheap here.

Because they deliver all of their orders at once.

This is a very NA centric take. You think Mercedes in Europe has the same quality as NA. German cars in NA are made in America or Mexico with shit build quality, while in Europe, they are obviously built in Europe. Whevever you device to take a vacation abroad, you notice alot of used bmw's and mercedes being driven around Europe and the middle east cause they are fucking tanks.

The reason why parts for german cars are expensive here is cause they manufacture the parts in Europe and ship them over to NA.

They make’em in Berlin?

Then it would make even less sense for them to deliver all at once… is that person full of it?

I think they ramped up production at that factory so perhaps they are thinking a big shift in the number of deliveries reflects something else. If they were shipped from America, I don’t see how they would “all” show up at once. They’d have to stockpile them or something then ship them. Unless they were all on the same boat but that’s unlikely. I dunno what the other fellow is referring to.

It costs money to warehouse product.

Some of them, a lot still sails in from China

>Weird, that’s crazy if true. Do they just put them all on a single ship? Is it somehow cheaper? Otherwise I’d assume they ship them as they roll off the production line

It's true, you can look at the numbers yourself.

This is related to two things:

1. A lots of their cars are still shipped in. So one or two ships arriving with thousands of cars each will skew statistics for that month.
2. Tesla overall has strong pushes at the end of the quarter. If you look at the graphs of their sales it's basically peaks and holes whole year, while most other car makers are more flat. This is mostly left-over from the time they were producing thousands of cars, struggling to survive and every quarter counted. Old habits die hard

With all fairness Tesla is more then a dent now. They sell more cars then Mazda, so they are not some minor player anymore. But you are completely right, the way they deliver cars and limited amount of models (really only 2 of them are mass market cars: 3 & Y). Means they are very high in sales-per-model stats.

For sure - Tesla is still building some interesting tech (even though I personally hate the UX concepts and design principles that go in those cars) that is interesting to some, maybe even many.

But - their technological leadership (mainly drive train/battery tech) will not last forever, and more and more legacy automakers are now coming to market with attractive EV options that might appeal to a more conservative audience like myself.

It doesn't help that Tesla seems to be developing more and more for the tastes of one egocentric person instead of mass market appeal (the "Homer" comes to mind) - Sure, there's people that love whatever Tesla is doing with the yoke, stalkless design, the games, the fart modes and whatnot, (as well as the screen focuses UX that is divisive) but that's not mass market appeal.

I think the next three years will be a hard time for Tesla, especially in Europe - their cars are simply not adapted well to the European market at the moment, and good alternatives are coming to market at an ever increasing rate.

Germany was (and still is) serviced mainly by Shanghai, not Fremont

Also, lots of import taxes to import car stuff to the US.

I’m not. I’m steadily buying weekly. Yes, Elon is acting like an idiot, but remove emotion from it and look at the actual company performance and financials. It’s one of the best performing companies of the last few years, with no sign of slowing down. Regardless of how many others are trying to catch up, Tesla will sell every single car it produces for the next five years with no problem.

As for the cars, my mother was the early adopter and has a Model Y and it’s her favorite car ever. One and a half years of driving and not a rattle or problem at all. It laughs at Colorado winters. I started this year with an Audi Q5 and A6. Now I have a Model 3 and a Model S. Previously I drove a BMW 335d. I know exactly what “quality” is and I have exactly zero regrets. I fucking LOVE every moment I spend in these cars.

I know it’s easy to bandwagon, but it’s absurd the number of people who have never driven ANY EV who just want to shit on Tesla.

someone needs to make a addon like the scammer list to tag people crying about Tesla while posting in /r/fuckcars

Traditionally, all globally sold vehicles (ie outside US) were made in Shanghai and shipped early in the quarter. As the quarter progressed, Shanghai would shift to local deliveries.

They’ve made some efforts to unwind this delivery pattern, and they now make Model Ys for Europe in Germany, but Europe still receives a lot of Chinese exports (and US exports for Model S/X) so the deliveries are still somewhat “lumpy”.

This should continue to smooth out however

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Yes true, I read last week Australia is about to get two shiploads buyers have waited months for. Maybe they wait to have enough orders to ship in bulk and get cheaper shipping bills as a result

You disagree with elon politically therefore his company must be bad. You're a shrill

Yeah right. And the tesla stock still going down.

Owned a model Y, wasn’t worth the price. For ~62k I could find better. EV charging is only great for commuters. If you just need a car for anything else, go gas or a cheaper EV if you really want one. The gas vs electric savings for me wasn’t worth it and other cars (BMW x5, gle) etc are much better in terms of quality/feeling.

Not true at all

Somebody wishes they owned any stock lol

https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/

2022 YTD

Looking at the remaining 90 models, remarkable is the performance scored by the Tesla Model Y in 32nd place, by the Toyota Yaris Cross in 41st, and the new Volkswagen Taigo in 74th.

yeah, there is a lot of electric cars in the world made by different companies, USA dose not allow them to import the cars.

you should see the cars made in china, india, and japan, they are on another level compared to tesla or any American car.

That is a nice publicity trick👍

Explains the long waits….

If only there was a linked article that contained the information in the second sentence.

Guess you have to remain ignorant.

They deserve? What did they ever do to you? Are you one of these ICE forever fans?

Should take your own advice.

Looking at the remaining 90 models, remarkable is the performance scored by the Tesla Model Y in 32nd place, by the Toyota Yaris Cross in 41st, and the new Volkswagen Taigo in 74th.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/

My own advice? To read the second sentence of the article, which confirms what Leuchty stated?

Ok I did that, how is anything else you are writing in any way relevant now?

All still remains true despite your claim to the contrary.

He said they deliver ALL their cars at one time. Not true

Nah. I am r/fuckcars follower