Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

homezlice t1_iydjf1j wrote

Reply to comment by squeevey in IBM and Maersk to shut down TradeLens supply chain platform - Project with shipping giant was once floated as ideal blockchain use case – but industry didn't buy in by Loki-L

But if you can't trust the government you are screwed anyhow. And by trust I mean that they will uphold your transactions and show up if someone steals from you. The idea that you don't need government to do these things is fantasy. And they are only going to do these things for currency they have a cut of and print.

Trust in economic systems is enforced by threat of force if trust is violated by bad actors.

19

phdoofus t1_iye3k0p wrote

Even the most ardent libertarians recognize the need for the courts and strong financial laws and systems and the means of contract enforcement.

4

DHFranklin t1_iyebrfa wrote

I don't think you've met the most ardent. Plenty I have spoken with don't beleive in third party arbitration, full stop.

6

phdoofus t1_iyeekpa wrote

There's a fair chance that you're right that I haven't.

1

psychopythonmetrist t1_iyed10r wrote

I love when libertarians talk about having a bunch of corporate controlled courts. Like those courts would ever rule in favor of a regular person lmao.

5

squeevey t1_iydllo5 wrote

Is that force a slap on the wrist? Because that's what it seems like these days.

−2

homezlice t1_iydnxe2 wrote

No I mean force as in someone steals from you a cop will take the case and the judicial system will prosecute.

4

squeevey t1_iyedymt wrote

  1. Have you ever heard of civil forfeiture? Look it up. The government can and does take money from citizens. I understand your trying to say we do have to trust the government, but the point is decentralized systems to avoid having to trust.

  2. A blockchain is a decentralized verified ledger. That's it. Policy creation, execution, and enforcement are different.

  3. There are so many ways you cannot trust the government. If someone steals from you, and you call the police? They often say good luck, here's the police report you can file with your insurance.

  4. If you DISTRUST the smart contracts on a blockchain, then you would seek verification of them before you run the "contract". Caveat Emptor.

−1

homezlice t1_iyege3o wrote

So...can you explain why the government would ever allow a decentralized currency? What problem does this solve for the government? And why would having money that is decentralized change the equation of ultimately having to have the government as part of the deciding factor in whether something is going to be allowed or not? Last I checked governments had ALL the power in the world, and the chance of them giving up that power (much of which is derived from controlling currency), is 0.

The government in the US via the FDIC does protect customers from corrupt banks (to a certain extent, but most people don't have millions in savings anyhow) - and overall, the government does act on our behalf in keeping bad actors like FTX from pretending to be banks etc with the currency they control. Yeah I know...there are a lot of "whatabouts" you could come up with here, I could spend all day coming up with them also. And yeah, I know all about civil forfeiture, and the global financial crisis, and fiat currency, the whole thing being made up to serve elites, etc...none of that matters to the point I am making:

my point is NOT that the government does this WELL or better than a hypothetical system might, but rather that they control the system through currency now and are not going to relinquish that power, ever. So it doesn't matter even if blockchain solves some edge-case problems of validation and trust for individual citizens or businesses, it will never be adopted as a primary means of exchange exactly because it dis-intermediates our governments.

Unless of course they decide to make their own crypto currency and control it themselves, which of course gets us back to square one.

3

squeevey t1_iyejdv7 wrote

I'm picking up what you're laying down. You make some good arguments. I dig it.

> So...can you explain why the government would ever allow a decentralized currency?

Because other countries allow it. If they don't get in the game, then there's money left on the table. Rich gotta be Rich.

If you play ONLY in crypto - it's a bit shadier in the sense that the IRS can't exactly keep track of your income (it's a LOT harder). So then they trust you're reporting your income correctly so they can tax you accordingly. Same with state governments. Government wants taxes. Since this is a digital game, you gotta play to even stay in the game, otherwise money is left on the table.

USDC is exactly that: https://www.investopedia.com/usd-coin-5210435 it's a "stablecoin". The article talks about those too.

Really good article that really makes you think about the current financial system and the future.

1