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wotmate t1_ixl51bp wrote

They've got a LOT of work to do to make these viable for use outside a demonstration track, as they have so many problems to overcome it's just not funny.

Firstly, regenerative braking won't be able to recover enough energy. As they're used mainly in open cut mines, they go down into the hole empty (so not doing much work) and then drive up out of the hole completely full (using literally all the power they've got).

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Secondly, most mines operate 24/7. Apart from scheduled maintenance, there is no downtime. Currently, dump trucks get refilled while they're in a queue waiting for the digger, so until they can work out how to fully recharge in that time, nobody is going to want them.

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dannoGB68 t1_ixl8cep wrote

Totally agree on downtime for recharging. Same issue for over the road semi tractors. Seems like both could be solved with cartridge-style batteries that could be swapped. The truck keeps going while the spare battery is on the charger. Similar to what is done in 24x7 warehouses with electric forklifts. Sure, it’s a different scale, but the same process.

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IvorTheEngine t1_ixlkl7p wrote

Battery swaps would be much easier for mine trucks than long distance truckers, because all the batteries would be owned by the same company and the mine truck is never far from the charger.

A long-distance truck in Europe would probably be in a different country every time it needs a battery swap, so not only would the battery format have to be standard across all brands, but the billing system would have to handle multiple companies supplying batteries and charging infrastructure. Unless someone like Tesla could roll out a world-wide monopoly.

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dannoGB68 t1_ixmnkc4 wrote

In the states, Class 8 semi tractors are dominated by 4 big manufacturers with Freightliner having the dominant market share.

I know it may seem like a strange analogy, but think about energy for your BBQ grill. When I need more, I take my tank to a convenience store and swap it for a full tank. I don’t care who had that tank before, just that it has a full charge. The BBQ grill industry with many manufacturers (or an agency) determined a standard fitting so that they are fully interchangeable.

You could do similar w batteries. For instance, Freightliner could partner w Pilot Truck Stops and set up battery swaps. They would ensure that the batteries meet specs and condition requirements and you’d pay for the charge.

One of our convenience store chains in the Midwest sells gas, diesel, cng, LNG, electricity, etc. Their stated mission is that they sell energy. Truck stops could do the same.

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adventure_in_gnarnia t1_ixlbthx wrote

Semi truck drivers need to sleep and are limited to 11 hours driving in a 14-hour work day after 10 consecutive hours off duty… so these are nowhere close to the same scenario

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dannoGB68 t1_ixlet72 wrote

I’ve worked for a very large trucking company for 25 years. I’m very aware. Current range is about 200 miles. That’s about 4 hrs for an OTR driver. What do you do for the rest of his 11 hour shift? Sit him while the truck recharges or swap batteries and go?

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g1aiz t1_ixlwrek wrote

Designwerk just showed a 40t one with 360miles range fully loaded. We are getting there.

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Tarcye t1_ixlyh0a wrote

The Problem isn't range it's weight. For EV semi trucks to be viable they have to weigh around as much as ICE ones.

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swords-and-boreds t1_ixm4gl8 wrote

Tesla are making a 300 mile one and a 500 mile one. First deliveries to Frito Lay are in December. They’re also setting up a Megacharger network. Drive 4-8 hours, park for an hour, then a second leg. It’s becoming viable.

Edit: for accuracy, it looks like Tesla are not doing an entire megacharger network but rather installing them at client locations. In light of that, these trucks may remain more for regional hauling than cross-country. But if someone were to put chargers at truck stops, they’d work for both.

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adventure_in_gnarnia t1_ixlfcp2 wrote

Range will continue to increase. But yea there’s still a lot of infrastructure and logistics to work out.

Just pointing out its drastically different duty cycles compared to a 3-shift manufacturing environment

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Beowoulf355 t1_ixlaes6 wrote

A viable solution until tech improvement in recharging and batteries. If they also have less down time due to fewer moving parts, it could be a bonus.

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Draskules t1_ixlc689 wrote

An issue I can see with the cartridge style is the weight. To power that massive machine you'd need some huge, heavy batteries. You would need a crane or somthing just to swap them out

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IvorTheEngine t1_ixlj49m wrote

Even a forklift battery is far too heavy to lift by hand. The battery handling is part of the system. I'd imagine the truck would be able to lift and lower its own battery, and they'd use a long lead to power the truck between batteries.

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cat_prophecy t1_ixn8gth wrote

Forklift batteries are also lead-acid and heavy on purpose as they’re used for the counterweight.

The minimum energy density of a LiOn battery is 28% higher than lead acid and that would be using old obsolete packs. For modern packs it’s about 200-300 times higher.

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PROLAPSED_SUBWOOFER t1_ixmbbcj wrote

A machine to swap the batteries is not a big deal, even the smaller size forklift batteries are >2000lbs. Many forklifts actually use the battery as a counterweight . The issue is standardizing battery formats like electric forklifts have already done. A 10000lb truck battery wouldn't be much different, just would need a a bigger forklift to move the bigger battery.

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Sp3llbind3r t1_ixlqo0g wrote

It‘s not like they had a lot of work for doing a prototype. If i remember correctly, the drivetrain was hybrid anyways. So it was a diesel or gas turbine powering electric motors in the hubs or something close to that.

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chandleya t1_ixm3af0 wrote

It would be fascinating to hear what “fast charging” looks like on these fat boys. With Tesla already operating tons of 250kW charging infra, are we ready for 1.5MW for the tractors? That’s just … well it’s a lot haha.

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FIRSTFREED0CELL t1_ixmc0ia wrote

I don't know anything about mining, but I wonder if some sort of pantograph and overhead wires along the more permanent sections of road could work. I would think the active mining end of the route might be too dynamic to be electrified, or at least would require some easily movable tower system. There have been locomotives that run on partially electrified routes for quite some time - they are able to raise a pantograph and switch to electric from diesel while moving.

Would it be worth the effort?

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ahfoo t1_ixml35v wrote

I have zero experience or inside knowledge on this but I would guess that you've answered your own question basically which is that the whole thing is too dynamic for a solution like that to work. Pantograph wires are fine for light rail mass transit where the route never changes but an open pit mine is almost certainly changing constantly. Think of it as a landfill in reverse. This idea clearly would not work in a landfill. A mine is the opposite case.

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shiftty t1_ixnwru2 wrote

This is already in widespread use. The trucks run on diesel>electric part of the time, but the main slope has exactly what you described

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frontiermanprotozoa t1_ixlldl5 wrote

> dump trucks get refilled while they're in a queue waiting for the digger, so until they can work out how to fully recharge in that time, nobody is going to want them.

Tbf running a high gauge wire to loading and unloading bays sounds easier than managing refilling of individual trucks with flammable liquid

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nyaaaa t1_ixnp8br wrote

They only need to be charged enough for one trip.

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