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scylla t1_jddqixk wrote

Reply to comment by iceleel in Apple employees face reprisals, possible termination over return to office policy by OutlandishnessOk2452

Those Apple employees ( not executives )in the Bay Area are making over 200,000 USD in total compensation, many make a lot more.

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disgruntled_pie t1_jddrwzq wrote

Stop trying to pit labor against labor.

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scylla t1_jde8nx9 wrote

Do you actually work in the tech industry?

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disgruntled_pie t1_jde8qbh wrote

Yes, and I have for a long while. Why?

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scylla t1_jde9jxp wrote

Did you not see the immense wealth generated by technology for the last 30 years. You can argue about the share that went to employees but at this scale you’re quibbling about how to fairly slice a pie when 10 new ones are being cranked out of the oven.

It’s similar to how the Soviet Union fell. They were equally miserable standing in line for bread but they literally abandoned their decades-old way of life when it was impossible to censor images of overflowing Western supermarkets.

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disgruntled_pie t1_jdea8lx wrote

Labor fighting against labor is why we keep fucking losing. This is pure distraction.

Labor needs to all be on the same side regardless of race, religion, sex, etc. These idiotic minor differences do nothing to change the fact that you and I have a lot more common interests than either of us do with Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. The fact that I write code for a living does nothing to change that.

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scylla t1_jdeb4rp wrote

Have to agree to disagree. I have friends whose houses were built on options from Amazon and Tesla. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest that Jeff and Elon got Billions out of the same rise in share price. Envy is a poor substitute for actual material benefit.

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disgruntled_pie t1_jdeba2p wrote

I honestly have no idea what your point is. You’ve completely lost me.

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scylla t1_jdecjcq wrote

My point is that instead of raging at Apple ( or other Tech companies) for changing the WFH policies , maybe see all the other benefits they’re giving. The main benefit is a massive paycheck. If that’s not worth it, find another company that offers WFH or employs you in your preferred location. Related , I honestly don’t think that a college-educated staff engineer making 250k+ has the same interests and can be lumped into the same ‘Labor’ bucket as the guy picking Strawberries in Salinas.

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disgruntled_pie t1_jdee9pd wrote

Ah, I see. You’re one of those petite bourgeoise who thinks that you’re somehow special. We’re not. The fact that I’m a high income earning software developer involved a series of lucky breaks (and admittedly many years of very hard work). But if we replayed my life with a different random seed then it’s just as likely that I never would have made it into this field.

We’re just people. You’re not special, and I’m not special. We are fundamentally still part of the labor class because we exchange our labor for money. If your labor stops being useful then you will be discarded.

Our labor laws give far too much power to the capital class, and you’re deluded if you think they care about you. Rights for workers benefit us just like everyone else.

You can tell yourself that you’re somehow part of the elite because you work in tech, and you can pretend that this means you’re somehow part of the aristocracy if that makes you feel special. But you’re not. You’re just like everyone else. The problem is that you think that’s an insult.

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scylla t1_jdeev1v wrote

They certainly don’t care about me. I certainly don’t care about them.

However, at times our interests align. Silicon Valley does this via stock options ( previously never given to the rank and file) and the results over the last 30 years has been remarkable.

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disgruntled_pie t1_jdeheaz wrote

I say this as someone who has made a fair bit of money on stock options; they are generally a scam. I’ve seen plenty of people sell their company for options only for the value of the stock to remain below the strike price for years. I’ve known people who ended up selling their company to get a desk job they hated in exchange for options that were literally worthless.

Companies don’t do stock options because they’re a great idea for workers. They do them because they’re complex enough that most people don’t understand them and it sounds like a lot of money, when it might actually end up being nothing depending on the performance of the company’s stock.

Have you ever asked C-suite executives at a startup to show you their cap table when they start talking about their “generous” options? They usually shut up in a hurry when they realize that you actually understand what they’re talking about.

Your interests don’t align with theirs. They’ve pulled you in by stroking your ego and convincing you that they’ve given you something special. They haven’t. They gave you something of highly variable value because they figured you were too dumb to understand its worth.

When considering offers from companies I consider stock options to be worthless, because statistically speaking that’s usually what they are.

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scalyblue t1_jde6r1i wrote

Rent on a shitty studio apartment in Cupertino is like 2200/mo at the low end, you can double or even triple that if you want multiple bedrooms for a family, and that’s not counting utilities or necessitates.

200 grand is not a poverty wage by any definition but there are many places in the US where it is also not a lot, especially when rent can easily be more than half your take home

So why not let these people move to towns that are cheaper to live in if they can completely and efficiently do their jobs from home with an occasional commute

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Amadacius t1_jdfeuuk wrote

Oh god I hope not. That's not very much in that labor market.

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