Submitted by Flawed_L0gic t3_11xt2sd in technology
donsanedrin t1_jd6xxed wrote
Reply to comment by riff-computer in Judge dismisses gamers’ claims that Microsoft/Activision merger will spoil gaming by Flawed_L0gic
They didn't buy any of these games that we call "exclusives".
They bought studios for their talent, and created new IPs from them.
They did not TAKE CONTROL over an existing popular IP.
Yes, they did build things from the ground up.
Yes, it absolutely is different behavior.
Why are you pretending that you don't know the obvious difference?
riff-computer t1_jd6yvtl wrote
I do know the difference. For example, Rare , Obsidian and Tango have produced high quality, new IP for Microsoft since being acquired. This includes Hi-Fi rush, Sea of Thieves, Grounded and Pentiment. That’s talent acquired, as you describe, not franchises.
Not a single franchise that already existed on Playstation has yet to be removed from Sony’s platform. I can still download all existing Bethesda games on my PS4 if I like. Can you name me a title which was confirmed and announced for PS5 or PS4, from an acquired studio, which has since been cancelled on Sony’s platform?
donsanedrin t1_jd95p9n wrote
> Not a single franchise that already existed on Playstation has yet to be removed from Sony’s platform
The Outer Worlds sequel definitely appears to be.
The first game was on Playstation.
This new patch that they are selling to upgrade to the new consoles, and by all accounts is the OPPOSITE of "high quality", are them still selling to Playstation consumers.
The Outer World 2 is only scheduled for Xbox and PC.
Try explaining that.
> Can you name me a title which was confirmed and announced for PS5 or PS4, from an acquired studio, which has since been cancelled on Sony’s platform?
Starfield was premiered at Bethesda's own independent E3 conference in 2018. All of their games at that conference were games that were expected on all major platforms at the time, Xbox, Playstation, and PC.
Therefore Starfield, from the very beginning, had a clear expectation that they were going to be available for all platforms that Bethesda/Zenimax had already been making games for.
You already know this. I really hope you don't start adopting Xbox marketing-speak to try and get around that one.
riff-computer t1_jd9e804 wrote
They now own both IP’s and are free to do with them as they wish. The Outer Worlds 1 still exists on PlayStation. The sequel did not enter production until later. Quite simple.
And I’m sorry but Starfield being expected to launch on PlayStation was not confirmation of anything. You can’t claim it was lost when marketing material never said it was coming to PS5. The business world does not run on expected to’s. This is the simple objective truth of it. I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s how it is. I expected Silent Hill 2, FF, and Octopath Traveller 2 on Xbox. Doesn’t mean anything.
While your cherry picking examples, explain why it’s any different that Final Fantasy, a franchise that has long existed on Xbox, is now not getting any new mainline entries thanks to Sony continuing to pay SE to keep it off the platform? Or does this behaviour not count when it comes from a market leader?
donsanedrin t1_jd9l5dq wrote
> They now own both IP’s and are free to do with them as they wish
So you just immediately went and moved your goalposts.
Did you think I wasn't going to notice that you just did that?
You literally asked me "show me where they are changing the parameters"
I went and showed you.
And then you just casually responded ".........as it is their right to do so"
You just proved my point, as to why they shouldn't be allowed to buy out Activision.
> And I’m sorry but Starfield being expected to launch on PlayStation was not confirmation of anything. You can’t claim it was lost when marketing material never said it was coming to PS5.
It was clearly a multiplatform announcement, since they were a multiplatform developer/publisher having a press conference for all of their games, which were multiplatform.
You attempting this legalspeak isn't going to dismiss basic common sense. When Todd Howard is saying this is his next major IP, its meant to be alongside Elder Scrolls and Fallout.
Games and Franchises that are multiplatform, and HAVE BEEN multiplatform for a while now. The expectation is more than obvious.
riff-computer t1_jd9og0k wrote
Look, I’ve clearly struck a chord here. I’m not out here saying Microsoft is making the correct decisions, but the core of my position is that Sony did, and continues to acquire studios to boost their portfolio. They are not some bastion of building their entire business from the ground up, that’s my point.
I have owned every platform since the N64 and PS1 (and plan to continue to do so) I have watched this go down over the last 2 decades. I’m not trying to diminish whatever these studios have done post acquisition, but in another 2 decades it’s incredibly likely Microsoft will have fostered similar success. So what if you lose a couple games on your favourite plastic box? Buy both of its really an issue for you. The real issue here is exclusives are bad for everyone in general, and both have continued to push the divide further.
donsanedrin t1_jd9qk64 wrote
> Look, I’ve clearly struck a chord here.
No, that internet tactic doesn't work with me, either.
> I’m not out here saying Microsoft is making the correct decisions, but the core of my position is that Sony did, and continues to acquire studios to boost their portfolio
No, you are saying that it is okay for Microsoft to do a anti-consumer move because you CLAIM that Sony does such anti-consumer moves all the time.
You are trying to say that Sony has established this practice already.
You are wrong, dishonest, and greatly exaggerating this.
> I’m not trying to diminish whatever these studios have done post acquisition, but in another 2 decades it’s incredibly likely Microsoft will have fostered similar success.
Really? Take a look at the state of the Halo brand.
You are now claiming that Microsoft is buying Call of Duty, Diablo, Warcraft..............to IMPROVE upon them and take them to new heights in terms of success?
That's laughable.
Microsoft is trying to CORNER A MARKET. Anybody with half a brain can see this from a mile away.
They started by buying a $7.5 billion dollar publisher, which is more than twice as large as any gaming acquisition Sony has ever made. And then the very next year they announced they are spending ten times that amount to buy an even bigger publisher.
These are the very first and second moves that a corporation makes when they are trying to corner a market.
WALKAW t1_jd9utlq wrote
None of those can be described as "high quality IPs". They are mostly small indie sized games.
No future Zenimax game.will be on Playstation and when they acquire Activision it will be the same.
Again not hard to see the issue
donsanedrin t1_jd9ygjk wrote
> Can you name me a title which was confirmed and announced for PS5 or PS4, from an acquired studio, which has since been cancelled on Sony’s platform?
IGN France just posted a timely article, today, that gives us another example:
> During our Redfall preview session , we had the opportunity to chat with the game's creative director, Harvey Smith (who also worked on Deus Ex and Dishonored 1 and 2). This was an opportunity to ask him the question about the impact of the acquisition of Bethesda by Microsoft in 2021, right during the development of Redfall.
> Harvey Smith told us that one of the notable consequences was the immediate cancellation of the PlayStation 5 version of the game.
> "We were acquired by Microsoft and it was a change with capital C. They came in and they said 'No PlayStation 5, we're focusing on Xbox, PC and the Game Pass'."
What Microsoft executives are saying internally does not coincide with what they say to the outside world.
Good on this developer, and for IGN France, for getting a hard quote that makes it very clear about what is happening.
riff-computer t1_jdalrrh wrote
You left this part out. He’s not championing against the merger or in support of Sony. That game was not announced at the time, as a consumer you have not lost anything promised.
“It’s not very serious, it’s even a good decision I think,” Smith said of dropping the PS5 version. “[It helps to] support Game Pass and have one less platform to worry about, one less complexity.”
He added: “Game Pass has a ton of players, it could become our biggest game thanks to 30 million, where I can’t remember the exact number, of subscribers.”
You keep cherry picking to support your emotional viewpoint. I’ll say it one last time, all exclusives are inherently bad for consumers, and Sony has indeed prevented games from being launched on rival platforms. There is tons of evidence out there (Final Fantasy would like to have a word, it doesn’t matter if they don’t own the IP, they are paying to keep it off the Xbox).
They don’t do this for you, they do it to protect their position in the market. Now Microsoft follows their established lead and everyone freaks out? It was only last generation that Insomniac released a game on the Xbox (Sunset Overdrive), and now that studio will never work with anyone but Sony again.
Yes, some IP has been lost in the process to Microsoft, but if Sony is as amazing as you say they will be able to produce their own in house rivals to these franchises.
donsanedrin t1_jdautrh wrote
> That game was not announced at the time
This is some ridiculous internet fanboy logic.
Just like your other post in which you said "Well, they didn't PROMISE, did they"
What comes after that? "Well, they weren't crossing their fingers behind their back when they said it, did they?"
How many arbitrary rules do you want to put in place in order to defend Xbox here?
This was a game in development for Playstation, they literally were told stop for non-gaming, non-technical reasons. They were told to stop, and it clearly had an anti-consumer impact.
> You keep cherry picking to support your emotional viewpoint
After your ridiculous logic, you have no place to lecture anybody about "emotional viewpoints."
> Sony has indeed prevented games from being launched on rival platforms
No, they haven't
Please show me a permanent buyout, and them shutting down existing game development.
You do understand that marketing deals or timed exclusivity is a TWO PARTY partnership. Sony didn't FORCE anything, they didn't bully their way into anything.
> (Final Fantasy would like to have a word, it doesn’t matter if they don’t own the IP, they are paying to keep it off the Xbox).
No where near the level of what Microsoft is already doing with Zenimax, and what they will eventually do with Activision games.
Once again, Sony didn't bully Square-Enix. Squre-Enix made that business choice.
> Now Microsoft follows their established lead and everyone freaks out?
Once again, your entire basis for this line is based on making a clear and dishonest claim.
Your fanboy is absolutely showing here.
> It was only last generation that Insomniac released a game on the Xbox (Sunset Overdrive), and now that studio will never work with anyone but Sony again.
Sunset Overdrive bombed, Insomniac choose to work with Sony on a Sony-controlled IP. And they made their most successful game, and then they choose to continue doing business with Sony, and their owners chose to get bought out.
Once again..........Insomniac is NOT a publisher, and NOT even a major publisher.
Once again.........Insomniac HAD NO MAJOR GAMING IP at the time they were acquired. The IP was already in Sony's hands.
You were never getting a Spider-man game on Xbox. Zero Percent chance of that ever happening.
Do you honestly believe what you are typing? You're trying to compare these things as the same?
> Yes, some IP has been lost in the process to Microsoft
Zenimax, a publisher that averages between $500-$550 million in revenue annually--which puts them on the level of Capcom or Konami--was bought out entirely.
And Activision--which generates about $7.2 billion in revenue annually--and is probably the single biggest third-party publisher that conducts most of its business in the west, and is only behind Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo.
You're over here trying to downplay it as "well.........some IP"
[deleted] t1_jd7zvpe wrote
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