luxtabula t1_j9x74vp wrote
Windows 11 didn't make any sense on rollout. Having it dependent on TPM 2.0 just seemed arbitrary. They should have continued with keeping windows 10 as the final version of windows and quietly added a TPM requirements when enough machines had it.
Smith6612 t1_j9xarnf wrote
It sort-of does, actually. Windows 10 is the transition OS between not having a TPM, and having a TPM. Any computer shipping with Windows 10 is supposed to have TPM Capabilities. It just wasn't mandated to install and run the OS. However, if you did have a TPM enabled and happened to be using a laptop or tablet, and had a Microsoft account signed in, BitLocker would enable for free.
tso t1_j9zmo0r wrote
> BitLocker would enable for free.
Now that is one massive Chekhov's footgun.
fishdybuns t1_ja09a5p wrote
I feel like I would get a lot more out of your post if I knew what TPM was.
Smith6612 t1_ja0x6tu wrote
Trusted Platform Module is what it stands for. It's a security device which can be used to store secrets like encryption keys, and other keys to verify whether a computer is running trustworthy code.
CaptainIowa t1_ja0y6r4 wrote
Check the second Google result for "TPM": What is a TPM? - Microsoft Support
Kursem_v2 t1_j9zz0rg wrote
BitLocker were only enabled through OEM configuration, usually business model.
by default, it'll still off regardless you have TPM 2.0 and Microsoft account.
Smith6612 t1_ja08eyp wrote
Maybe. I've seen BitLocker enable on the BYOC Framework laptops and an Acer laptop I have at home with fresh Windows installs. The Frameworks came without OEM editions of Windows, and unbundled keys. The only device I'd think would have BitLocker enabled by default would be the NuVision 8" Signature tablet, which shipped with Windows 10 originally.
The systems without BitLocker enabling automatically would be my desktops.
OverloadedConstructo t1_ja0qzqz wrote
I think bitlocker are not available in windows home edition
Smith6612 t1_ja0x43f wrote
Not configurable in the Home edition, but it's there. Microsoft calls it "Device Encryption" under the Settings menu. Only appears if you have a computer which is a candidate for what they call "Automatic Encryption."
Difference between Home and Pro is Home doesn't give you the option to save the key or use USB Authentication. Must go to the Microsoft account.
epic_null t1_j9yk3x9 wrote
Oh no Oh no
Oh no no no no no
Consumers should not have that by default do you understand how many hard drives my family has had to access via external readers this is a bad bad idea so much data is gonna get lost
Smith6612 t1_j9ynp52 wrote
They only encrypt the internal hard drive by default. Anything more requires paying for Windows Pro editions. At the point of auto encryption, it should only be a matter of them remembering the password to their Microsoft account.
That part I know can be challenging for many. They forget they even had an account!
epic_null t1_j9yp4rv wrote
The internal hard drive is what I have popped out of the system and put into a case for data recovery.
And if you can't decrypt an external without a pro account, that makes the problem WORSE not BETTER.
epic_null t1_j9yp7yh wrote
Oh yeah and because of pins, the chances of forgetting your windows account is HIGHER.
Because you aren't USING it.
Smith6612 t1_j9yyamw wrote
Yep you're not wrong. I've had a few of those come through where people ask me to clear the password from a computer they haven't used for months and forgot, only for me to find it's tied to a Microsoft account. I simply tell them they can go to <insert link here> to reset their password. Usually when I say that, it becomes dead air / Deer in headlights look, and they just seem to not want to reset their Microsoft account password. Maybe Microsoft could make it more obvious, or challenge people weekly for the password in order to sign in. I can remove the Microsoft account link, of course. It's just a big pain to do.
And yeah, for data recovery on a drive, have to get into the Microsoft account to retrieve the key. Return to above where the user forgot their credentials. Of course Microsoft doesn't tell people to back up their key before they encrypt the drive automatically so, yep.
epic_null t1_j9yz4em wrote
Hard drive encryption is GREAT for business who have an IT team. (Even just one guy who knows to back up that password.)
But for consumers? That shit shouldn't be on by default. The user has no clue what the risks of it are, and no warning that there are even risks to account for.
Smith6612 t1_j9z7y5s wrote
They should definitely prompt for it like Apple does/did on macOS. It can help consumers too, since computers do get stolen from homes all the time.
epic_null t1_j9zhbc4 wrote
There are benefits, no doubt, but personal experience tells me that the risk for a personal computer is more heavily leaning towards anything else happening, with the drive being the only recoverable bit. (This is reflected in how I choose and manage my machine, but may not be reflected in how people in higher theft areas choose and manage their machines. For obvious reasons.)
Exshot32 t1_j9z7squ wrote
I work in a repair store.
NO customer ever knows their drive is Bitlocker or Filevault encrypted. NONE.
I'm on board with encryption for consumer protection, but Microsoft and Apple do a horrid job of explaining what they are doing to your data. They want you using their cloud services. So encrypting your drive with auto cloud backup becomes kinda a sneaky maneuver.
If they just explained things better I'd be fully on board with this. But no one understands why I can't get their data from a dead machine with an encrypted drive. And good luck remembering your Microsoft or iCloud password and finding your recovery keys.
epic_null t1_j9zdcg4 wrote
I'm not saying don't make it available - just have the user turn it on at some point. Then if customers make a bad decision, at least then they'll have made a bad decision and understand why there's now a bigger problem.
UnderstandingSome901 t1_ja1159m wrote
Yeah 11 is just so finicky still, I'm still so annoyed that it forced me to upgrade when I declined it
SeverusSnek2020 t1_ja11ozz wrote
What it did was force the industry to move forward with TPM enabled by default. Microsoft was just the poster of being the asshole for actually making it happen.
taz-nz t1_j9xde0s wrote
Microsoft never said Windows 10 final version of Windows, the actual quote was:
“Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,”
If you change the "last version" to the "latest version" or "last version released" you get the true meaning of what the developer was trying to say. The last version ever was never the official narrative.
sputnikv t1_j9xhpnw wrote
> Microsoft never said Windows 10 final version of Windows
they did, multiple times.
taz-nz t1_j9xi06k wrote
Find me the quote from an official source, not a third party.
sputnikv t1_j9xme73 wrote
it’s in the wikipedia, have your pick of the cited sources
taz-nz t1_j9xnk78 wrote
Thank you for at least trying, but after reading all the cited sources, none of them official quote Microsoft as saying Windows 10 is the last Windows, the first article comes the closest with actual quote from Microsoft talking about Windows as a service and a change in the way they make their revenue stream, but the last two are just third party misquote of the original developer as I quoted above.
[deleted] t1_j9yjaan wrote
[deleted]
BCProgramming t1_ja1hopw wrote
Yes, that quote was from Jerry Nixon at the 2015 Ignite conference.
And the interpretation was in the air. That is why many news outlets and web magazines asked Microsoft for clarification- Is Windows 10 the last version of windows they will make? In a statement to Network World, A Microsoft spokesperson said this:
>"Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers. We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations."
They don't seem to really be clearing it up here. Like he writes in the article, they cleared up nothing- you'd think if Nixon meant the most recent version, they'd just- clarify that. The author theorizes it probably won't be the last version, though not with any of the clarification that Microsoft provided.
Over the successive few years, people continued to raise this question; they received the same sort of answer from Microsoft. There would be no "new" release of Windows, it would be more of a service going forward. Fact is " The last version ever was never the official narrative." is absolutely gaslighting at this point. The entire reason so many people asked about it on Microsoft answers and various other official and semi-official locations was because the idea that Windows 10 was the last version of Windows was *so fucking idiotic and beggared belief, and at no step of the way did Microsoft EVER clarify and say there would be future windows versions, Instead they doubled down on every single official statement, saying Windows 10 would be the "last full release" of Windows, and that it would be a service, and so on.
Here's a bunch of links for review.
When Win11 rumours started to float around, there were more questions. So people asked, "Will there be a Windows 11?". For example, here, on June 15th, 2021.
They provide an screenshot of the leaked build. The responses, which, in this case aren't from Microsoft, so aren't "official" but are nonetheless answers on the official forum by long-time members of said forum:
"Currently, Windows 11 is an Internet myth, and Microsoft say there will be no Windows 11, that screenshot you have provided is a scam."
Another person asked here sometime earlier in 2020. They got this:
"Windows 11 is just an internet hoax. "
"Microsoft has stated that there will be no Windows 11."
Another one was asked here in 2019.
"The schedule that has been previously stated is twice yearly major updates to Windows 10 and that Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows."
"It's worth noting that it has been announced that there is a User Interface overhaul planned to be released in 2021. This is NOT a new Operating System, but will change the look of Windows 10, so may confuse some people into thinking that there is a new OS coming. Whereas if anything, this indicates that Windows 10 is here to stay for the foreseable. "
"The closest thing to a new version of Windows would be an update that drops 10, and so it is just called windows"
Some others kept asking occasionally.
And received the same sort of response. "Windows 11 is an internet hoax."
"There is currently no Windows 11 or 12 in the development plans" -Donata.C, Independent Advisor, January 20th, 2021.
marked as answer: "Microsoft said Windows 10 is the last and they will update it a couple times a year".
Also replied with:
"Sorry to say but there will be no Windows 11. Windows 11 is currently an internet myth. Not all information what you see in the internet is true and those were fake news. Microsoft is focus in improving and updating Windows 10 in a continuous basis releasing two feature updates per year. The first feature update for this year is the May 2020 Windows version 2004."
At some point, a particular MVP got so annoyed at people asking, he created a thread and pinned it specifically to address the question. There is no Windows 11, in October 2020, saying "However, starting Windows 10 everything has been changed. There is no longer anything call Service Pack and there is no plan to release any successor to Windows 10 like what is going around with name Windows 11."
Pretty much everybody on Microsoft's official forums laughed at the idea of win11. Hell, even when there WAS A FUCKING LEAKED BUILD they said it was "a scam"!
But then, after Win11 was announced They ALL changed their tune. everything posted after that- calling out that Microsoft had said it was the last version, that all the official community moderators and staff and general userbase that had constantly said that Windows 10 was officially going to be the last version, acted like that didn't happen. They went from "Microsoft has said Windows 10 will be the last version" and were now suddenly saying "actually, they never officially said that Windows 10 was the last version".
Nowadays when people point it out, there's always somebody popping in going "acshually there's no official source from Microsoft saying it was the last version"; Nixon said it was the last version of Windows, and a spokesperson clarified that what he said reflected how Windows would be developed going forward. Like, yeah, they clarified specifically it would be the last version, but they never really clarified a damn thing because it was just worthless marketing copy. Nonetheless, For 6 long years everybody asking if it was the last version, or asking if there was going to be a Windows 11, were practically laughed out of Microsoft official support forums. So miss me with that "acshually it was never official" bullshit, because that's at best a technicality and at worse a case of Microsoft literally not clarifying anything ever, and leaving their army of sycophants to deal with the questions so that later people can claim "well acshually that's not an official source" Because Microsoft refused to actually speak plainly on the issue, insisting on all copy being some say-nothing marketing tripe.
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