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Ancient_Persimmon t1_ja0re1w wrote

Reply to comment by TminusTech in Ford’s EVs are getting faster charging and more affordable batteries thanks to new chemistry by Ssider69

Tesla are rolling out the "Magic Dock" for cars that use CCS1, that should cover pretty much everybody even if the other OEMs admit defeat and switch connectors.

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drysart t1_ja159p5 wrote

I don't know that I'd characterize the entire industry except Tesla coalescing around an open, non-patent-encumbered, superior connector as a "defeat" they need to admit and switch away from.

Tesla's connector falls under Tesla's "you can use it if you promise to never sue us ever, for any reason" patent offering which already makes it kryptonite for literally every other company in the world; but it's also a less capable connector, not capable of safely carrying >500V when we're increasingly seeing vehicles capable of accepting higher voltages.

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Be-like-water-2203 t1_ja1a0mc wrote

Fun fact: Tesla use CCS in Europe, they changed all stations to be only CCS due to EU legislation, and all Tesla cars sold in EU ccs only version.

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Ancient_Persimmon t1_ja1ak1q wrote

Tesla completely opened their connector up last fall when they updated the spec. It can be used with the CCS protocol, so no need to license Tesla's proprietary one and it's rated to 1000V x 1000A.

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Zorb750 t1_ja212wo wrote

I have a really hard time with the idea of more than maybe 500A sustained for any amount of time on that connector. Cite proof.

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Zorb750 t1_ja31gz9 wrote

Whatever, downvote away. I have one. I can see the cross-sectional size of the pins. I feel like the "V3" superchargers, which deliver around 700 amps through this connector, are really the practical limit. My car does not have this, but I can tell you that when interrupted during the highest amperage (about half of the above) parts of charging, the connector is warm. I can't see tripling as feasible.

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homogenousmoss t1_ja6dtpj wrote

Wouldnt it be possible with the active cooling they’ve been adding?

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InvisibleEar t1_ja1rygi wrote

That's only mostly true https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO

Nissan is not going to give it up on the Leaf without a fight for some reason.

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Bobby_Marks2 t1_ja23xj5 wrote

Probably has to do with developing cars/engines/batteries/manufacturing technologies around specific voltage/amperage, so it's not as easy as just wiring a different connector in.

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InvisibleEar t1_ja3mq7e wrote

Yeah I don't know, I'm not an electricity man. But they can't ignore it forever. I'm happy with my used Leaf, but I think between the limited fast charge options and the battery management I wouldn't recommend people but a new one.

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Bobby_Marks2 t1_ja5ov1a wrote

Yeah we went from Leaf to Chevy Bolt and I'd recommend the Bolt all day long over the Leaf.

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InvisibleEar t1_ja8et7h wrote

Yeah I may have wasted money trying to save money but with my income I felt sick signing for 25k or more.

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Zorb750 t1_ja20wom wrote

The Tesla connector can easily handle higher voltages. It's downfall is on the amperage side, due to smaller pins.

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drysart t1_ja2gts1 wrote

They apparently released a 1000V-capable revision of it back in late November that I wasn't aware of; but the previous connector can indeed only handle 500V.

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Zorb750 t1_ja31pki wrote

Must just be a materials change with the insulation of the wire in it. Looking at mine, I can't see a reason it couldn't handle 1000 V. The size of the pins is what concerns me as far as amperage.

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drysart t1_ja3vr7w wrote

I had a discussion here on reddit back in September (about two weeks before Tesla announced their new 1000V plug variant) where I went over specifically what limits their plug to 500V, and concluded it was primarily the airgapped distance between their high voltage pins, not the size of the pins themselves.

If you look at the technical specs that they ended up releasing two weeks later where they introduced their new 1000V-capable variant, you'll notice that the most noticeable change between the 500V variant and the 1000V variant (see pages 16 and 21, specifically), is that they've recessed everything relating to the HV connections back into each side of the connection about 5mm; which adds about 10mm to the airgap, which is more than sufficient to safely extinguish a 1000V arc before it can bridge the pins.

Notably, though, the thickness of the pins themselves is unchanged in the 1000V variant. I'm not going to do the math right now but I wonder if that pin gauge is what holds their new connector design back from being >1000V capable because increasing the airgap alone should buy them plenty of safety headroom (but I'll also admit I'm not intimately familiar with the necessary safety margins they'd be aiming for).

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Zorb750 t1_ja43z20 wrote

Well, the size of the pins is never going to have anything to do with voltage. Voltage ratings are always a function of insulation, whether that is in the form of an air gap, some sort of dielectric material like wire insulation, even the dielectric properties of the material the connect your body is made of.

I'm going to read over this. Remember that there are plenty of very thin conductors that carry high voltages. The pin size only needs to be able to handle the amperage, as well as having reasonable properties against wear. In fact, one of the reasons that higher voltages are often used in a DC circuit, is to allow more power capacity with a given size of conductor. Look at Qualcomm with quickcharge 2 and 3. Your normal USB cable is good for roughly 2 amps, maybe a little bit more, so you can't increase the amperage beyond that, but you can drive up the voltage and just use a buck converter in the phone. That's also why those phones get so hot when they are charging.

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Zorb750 t1_ja60jt9 wrote

This is actually pretty interesting. I read over your couple of pages you sent me.

As far as safety margins, I'm not sure. I know that the highest I have ever seen on mine was in the low 400 volt range, but I also know the newer Model S has a 500 volt configuration, and the model 3 is approximately 350 volts. I know that they wouldn't run the connector right up to its tolerance, or I think even within 25% of it. That with the model 3 is part of what really surprises me, though. I'm not sure how they are pulling that off, if maybe the model 3 connector is slightly different of the car end. I have looked at mine in detail obviously, but it's old now. I'm still somewhat impressed every time I see much over 100kw (seen low 120s), at over 300 amps at 400 volts. I don't use the supercharger often, though.

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