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External_Staff_300 t1_j445qj1 wrote

Pit Bulls aren't the problem. Dobermans were not the problem. Rottweiler's were not the problem. No matter what breed they want to blame next, that's not the problem.

Small breeds attack far more often (look up the statistics) but we don't hear about that nearly as much.

The problem is idiot owners. People who don't properly train or socialize their dogs. People who don't pay attention to their dog's behavior and mood. People who have no right ever owning anything more dangerous or complicated than a goldfish.

Yes, occasionally a dog lashes out. But in almost every case there were warning signs that the handler (owner, dog walker, petsitter, etc) ignored. Whether the dog was sick, injured, stressed...

Know the animal in your care or don't have an animal in your care. The owner, or her brother in this case, should be prosecuted for negligence. Pure and simple.

Blame the person, not the breed.

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matramepapi t1_j446o74 wrote

Oh my god. Small breeds don’t maul and kill people. Pit bulls absolutely are the problem. Literally bred for game/dogfighting with such a high prey drive that blunt force and mace can’t detach its jaw. The problem is the idiot owners AND the idiot breed. These dogs are ticking time bombs.

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HarryTheHangryHippo t1_j449fv9 wrote

Idiot owners is correct. Idiot breed is not. They are a very intelligent and loyal dogs. Little dogs don't have the physical ability to maul/kill people. That doesn't mean they don't attack/bite people frequently. And this generally comes down to the fact that people see them as "cute little babies that require no training". All dogs were wild at one point, and people have to remember that. No matter how long they've been kept as companions and domesticated things can happen. People need to do their own due diligence with training, as well as researching the type of dog they are getting before they get them. Yes we have regulations in place inside of Greene county because bully breeds as they were bred for many many years will not let go if they latch on. I don't disagree with the regulations, but if owners would actually abide by them we wouldn't have ever had this problem. Or if people would be good and intelligent dog owners we wouldn't have this problem.

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44axyl wrote

Exactly this. Except there are instances where small breeds have attacked and killed kids, babies, and people unable to fight them off.

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[deleted] t1_j44ac5s wrote

[removed]

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matramepapi t1_j44gz50 wrote

Okay. Sure, two small dogs cited killing people. Only two. Versus 60% + of dog bite fatalities coming from pit bulls and pit Bull mixes . And this is just one site. But sure, it’s totally the owners. Not the breed. I clearly know nothing about dogs. /s

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44ikak wrote

And have you ever heard of a biased study? Maybe you should find a more reliable study than an injury lawyer trying to sell you a lawsuit. 😂

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matramepapi t1_j44jfra wrote

here’s another, scroll down. another. and one more! These are all sources not from an injury lawyer. Your point?

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44la6x wrote

Ah, the dog hater Colleen Lynn and her fake studies to get donations. You should do better research.

https://adbadog.com/truth-behind-dogsbite-org/

"The conclusion of this science based study (not a conclusion based on the former’s wishful thinking) demonstrates that breed is not a contributing factor in dog bite fatalities, and breed specific legislation is not the solution for eliminating dog bite fatalities."

Maybe you should talk to people that actually know dogs, rather than seeking out sensationalized headlines and studies from lawyers?

Just a thought.

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matramepapi t1_j44lmw4 wrote

Sorry, dog expert. I’m done arguing with you. Statistics prove that you are wrong, pitbulls are an inherently violent breed with a strong tendency to seriously injure people. Bye bye nutter!

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44lsg3 wrote

I'm not an expert. I just have a lot of experience with dogs of all kinds of breeds. And I have never seen a vicious dog that didn't have a stupid owner.

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matramepapi t1_j44lzzz wrote

Ah yes, because one person’s experience and anecdotal evidence is totally more reliable than statistics

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44md28 wrote

I am one person and I am relating my personal experience. But you have also shown that you have zero issue with citing biased sources but balk when given actual studies from experts on dog behavior.

I already know I won't change your mind and I'm not trying to. All I am hoping is that someone who isn't as close minded will look at the actual information I've shared and get a little wiser about this issue.

You have a wonderful evening.

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Wrinklestiltskin t1_j46h569 wrote

I would like to point out that I've never owned a pitbull (don't ever plan to), and I am not invested in this topic. But I'd like to play devils advocate here in order to promote scientically literate discussion on the matter.

There are many confounding variables that impact studies on dog aggression and reporting of dog attacks.

For instance, this study (PDF warning) found a strong association between deviant criminal behavior and and ownership of high risk 'vicious' dogs. It's important to note the relatively small and localized sample in that study.

To the claim of putbulls being the most vicious breed, this study found that smaller breeds were in fact the most aggressive. A finding which has been replicated by other studies. There are many factors thought to influence this, including the growth factor gene.

Smaller dog attacks are also severely under-reported since they are not as concerning, which further skews the statistics on dog attacks to a very significant degree. Source. Also illustrated in that article is the prevalence of pitbull ownership in specific locations/demographics, which directly impacts the rate of attacks simply due the higher proportion of pitbulls in the given population.

I think it's important to weigh all of the facts, consider the conflicting studies, and address all of the confounding variables that are not controlled for in most of the studies assessing breed-specific violence.

To claim that pitbulls are the most aggressive breed is not a claim you can make with certainty from the scientific literature we have on the subject.

For people more unfamiliar confounding/third variable problems, here is a famous example:

Statistics show that as ice-cream sales rise, so does the rate of violent crime. You should not draw inferences of causation from correlations, but one might arrive at the false conclusion that ice-cream promotes violent behavior.

However, in actually, the third variable influencing both of those statistics is hot weather.

I'm not going to tell anyone what they should believe, but I encourage everyone to remain vigilant in scrutinizing all available scholarly information, avoid engaging in confirmation bias, and do not simply believe other redditors' comments at face value.

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44i66p wrote

4.5 million dog bites reported annually 800,000 need medical attention 30-50 deaths annually Only 10% can be attributed to a specific breed. And only 1 in 5 of that 10% is attributed to a pit bull. But go on, blame the breed.

The only reason pitbulls take up the news is because they're popular right now. Previously it was doberman, then rottweiler, then German Shepherds, and so on.

I guess pitbulls just wanted to wait their turn to be vicious?

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moonstone98524 t1_j44w6ml wrote

This “nanny dog” claim is absolute bullshit. There are no contemporary sources to back it up. NO dog is a “nanny” and it’s stupid and irresponsible to suggest otherwise. Dogs are animals, not child-minders. I owned a Newfoundland for 10+ years. That’s the dog breed “Nana” from Peter Pan is based on. And I never claimed he was a “nanny dog” and I never left him unsupervised with my kids despite his unbelievably sweet and gentle nature because HE WAS A DOG. Stop spewing this nanny lie. It is DANGEROUS to pretend a dog, ANY DOG, is a suitable babysitter. Jesus.

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Speuter_Your_BBM t1_j44lcy6 wrote

Oh dear… this is embarrassing for you. You’re slamming someone else for not knowing anything about dogs, yet you claim that pit bulls were nanny dogs. Big yikes.

THIS IS A MYTH, started by Staffie breeder Lillian Rant in 1971 to distance the dogs from their fighting heritage. She called them “nursemaid” dogs. Check for any historical mention of “nanny dog” prior to 1971. You won’t find it. (Note: random Google blogs don’t count)

Please stop spreading this myth. It’s getting children killed. Every time you share this myth, you have the blood of dead children on your hands.

I’m going to share the pit bull EXPERTS that have publicly stated that pit bulls were NEVER nanny dogs. If pro-pit experts are saying this, please listen.

  1. The Pit Bull Advocates of America- It’s NOT All How They Are Raised/Nanny Dog Myth

  2. The Pit Bull Federation of South Africa

  3. Gudwulf’s Pit Bull Rescue

  4. Pit Bull Organization Bad Rap

  5. Ned Hardy Organization

As far as the PBFSA and Gudwulf’s; just visit their page and search the word “nanny” and you’ll find the info you need.

I’m begging you… please don’t ever spread this myth again.

Even if they ever were nanny dogs; the amount of horrid back yard breeding and number of dogs used for fighting would certainly not make that UNtrue today (they weren’t)… they kill and catastrophically injure more children every year than all other breeds combined.

Just THIS LAST WEEKEND PIT BULLS SCALPED TWO CHILDREN that were playing in their own neighborhoods.

11 year old Justin, GA, pulled off his bike and scalped by 3 bully breeds

7 Year old girl scalped and killed as she played in her own yard

This past October, American Bullies killed BOTH of a family’s children, age 2 and 5 months old. The family had owned the dogs for 8 years with zero incidents.

Please, please stop the myth.

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ProgressMom68 t1_j44nvrl wrote

Ok, let’s be fair here. A miniature schnauzer isn’t going to rip someone’s throat out. People want to make this a binary problem (bad breed vs. bad owners) but honestly, it’s both. Plus irresponsible breeders, lax laws, breed ignorance, and more.

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Wrinklestiltskin t1_j46adz9 wrote

I've seen a child's face after a small dog attack. You are just plain factually wrong that a small dog cannot do real damage, especially to children.

Am I going to feel as intimidated by a smaller dog as large dog? Hell no.. But that doesn't change the fact a small dog can tear up a child's face in an instant.

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44piby wrote

A mini-schnauzer isn't as likely. But it does happen, rare as it is. I agree about breed ignorance though. People don't know how to care for a breed's specific needs and tragedy happens. But that still leaves it with the owner being responsible.

There isn't a single breed out there that is universally vicious. There isn't one specific breed that is more likely to bite you. It all comes down to the individual temperament of the animal, it's training, it's treatment.. way too many factors than just "bad dog breed"

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Silhouettesmiled t1_j44cv4p wrote

IT'S THE BREED TOO!!! PITBULLS ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM! Open your eyes. This shit breed has already killed many people this year and the year has hardly started. Small breeds do NOT do nearly the amount of damage like this shit breed does. Why do you think pitbulls are used in dog fights??! That's what they are bred to do! Fuck it's even in their name! PITBULL

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44d7ed wrote

For every pitbull attack you read about there are hundreds, thousands, that are just being the sweet and gentle dogs they normally are.

It's not the breed.

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Silhouettesmiled t1_j44eihu wrote

I'm not arguing what the facts and statistics are. Do a simple Google search. Many have lost their lives because of this prey-driven breed.

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Realistic-Sun3480 OP t1_j44r256 wrote

I want to point out that there's also a sub here on reddit that is mainly about supporting victims of these attacks, spreading awareness of the importance of breed specific legislation, and other important info and topics related to and/or similar to this subject, etc.

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44er74 wrote

Of course not. Because the facts don't fit your narrative. Large breed attacks are reported more often, but actually happen less than small breed attacks.

People who are wrong never want to argue facts that prove it.

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ProgressMom68 t1_j44o14j wrote

You’re the one making the claim. You present the evidence. What is the human death rate per 1,000 pit bulls? Surely the evidence is out there somewhere. “Many” isn’t a useful statistic.

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Funky_Farkleface t1_j44oo2x wrote

Dahmer isn’t the problem! There are more small-scale murderers than serial killers, check the statistics. Dahmer had parents who should’ve taught him right from wrong. He wasn’t properly trained, that’s the real problem. If his parents had just spent more time with him, or took him to the mall for socialization, he would’ve never murdered all those people. Sure, there were probably warning signs but it’s not his fault, he wasn’t trained.

Alright, look. Are you prepared to go over to FedMed, take home a convicted murderer, and properly train them because they’re good boys who deserve a chance? It’s okay, we can castrate/vaccinate/license them. That’s enough for you to let them around your family, right?

What if I fostered a murderer? Can I bring him to the park, socialization is very important to his rehabilitation. You trust that I trained him, right? Because I’m an expert. The warden I got him from trusts me to train this murderer, so we’re good, right?

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44p35l wrote

That is the most idiotic analogy I have ever heard. You are adding nothing but ignorance to the conversation.

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Agoodnamenotyettaken t1_j45zjin wrote

So, what I'm getting from this is that you think we should ban all humans because some of them are capable of some very heinous shit. Or maybe just white males, since most serial killer come from that "breed."

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springfieldmo_17 t1_j44d82y wrote

Yes, use this platform to push your agenda while the children and teachers remain injured and traumatized…but make sure to let all of them know that pits aren’t the problem! Seriously, stfu.

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PieBiter t1_j44keki wrote

Pit Bulls maul, hospitalize and kill at 10 times the rate of all other breeds combined. Your "no matter what breed" dissembly is boilerplate nanny dog bullshit.

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HarryTheHangryHippo t1_j446pfw wrote

To add to this, many of the kids likely ran the other direction screaming bloody murder. This would have quickly triggered the dogs prey drive. It should have never been a problem if the owner/brother had them properly confined within the regulations I put in a previous comment. Or if they would have been on a leash and also had a muzzle on like is required by the regulations but nobody ever follows.

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Silhouettesmiled t1_j44d82i wrote

Pitbulls are also prey-driven monsters. It's so stupid that jackasses keep defending this dangerous breed.

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44eiur wrote

You don't know animals and certainly don't know pitbulls.

Did the dogs let themselves out? Did the dogs neglect to train themselves? Did the dogs neglect to socialize themselves? Did the dogs forget to make a vet appointment for proper vaccination?

No. All of that was the responsibility of the owner. Blame the owner.

I work maintenance in apartments. I'm around dogs, pits too, all day every day. Have been for years. Never seen a vicious one that didn't have an absolute idiot for an owner. And that goes for any breed of dog, cat, gerbal, ferret, or any other pet.

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lightsrage85 t1_j45xqwh wrote

right? I mean shoot take them to the vet get there shots. keep them trained and put up. its not hard. My friends dont go outside with there dogs for nothing. its to make sure they don't go out of the yard.

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HarryTheHangryHippo t1_j44fem4 wrote

There are so many other breeds that are very prey driven as well. A prey driven dog only becomes a problem without proper training and education on the owners end. Why do you think they are monsters? They are some of the most loving, loyal, and affectionate dogs. I do not own a pit bull/mix or anything close to them. I'm just trying to help people see from another side. Too many people just jump on the "monster" wagon in my opinion.

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External_Staff_300 t1_j44ljai wrote

I work around them every day. Never had an issue. Even when I volunteered at a kennel, never had an issue. My grandpa had one for 18 years, and she was a giant sweetheart.

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hypo_____ t1_j452sdh wrote

Anecdotes are not evidence

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External_Staff_300 t1_j453v65 wrote

Well, I provided actual studies and the lady deleted her comments. Y'all don't want facts. You want confirmation of your bias.

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springfieldmo_17 t1_j44cp3h wrote

The girl with the “severe leg injury” was innocently playing 4-square when the white dog bit her leg. She then ran, and the dog attacked her again biting her and bringing her to the ground and dragging her on the ground before a teacher bravely came and started beating the dog with a hydroflask. The girl ended up with 48 stitches and bite marks that were so deep you could see her bone from her inner thigh.

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