Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

ProgressMom68 t1_j14znny wrote

Reply to comment by the_honeyman in Dogs Attack Students, Teachers On The Playground of Willard, Mo. School by Realistic-Sun3480

That is such a nuanced, intelligent answer. Thanks. 🙄

6

the_honeyman t1_j150nlb wrote

Where is your solution? At least mine would begin to address the issue.

Edit: also, there is no nuance when it comes to a breed with a massive prey drive and a brain the size of a golfball, that has been bred since the very beginning for fighting.

−1

poth3lps t1_j151l7y wrote

An attempt to address the issue:

Start placing the punishment onto the owners as if they had committed this crime against kids themselves. It'd quickly become a harsh, sharp reality check on what happens when you don't watch your dogs or train them. We are responsible as adults for who and what we choose to live alongside. If you buy a pet and they're essentially a stranger to you, don't turn them fucking loose until they aren't a stranger to you. Get to know your dogs, and train them. It's insane to me how many people have dogs that will literally wreck the fucking house at the sound of a doorbell. This is not okay behavior. Most of the time, it's almost pathetic, too. People who let animals walk all over them are sad, sad people and need to get a fucking reality check. This "la la fun fun doggy play time" mentality needs to fucking stop if we're not even gonna sprinkle the teensiest bit of sensibility into the mix. I've already been bitten four times because of liars. It needs to stop.

edit: When I delivered for fedex, some of these bastard customers KNEW their dogs were violent and would straight-up lie. That is literally shirking your responsibilities . Literally. And it's fucking reprehensible.

8

the_honeyman t1_j152e1b wrote

You're not wrong, and that's all well and good, as far as reactionary punitive measures after the attack go.

Does nothing to help the kid who had to get mauled before the dog owner gets punished though. Feels like this is an issue where prevention>>>reaction.

2

Realistic-Sun3480 OP t1_j1634la wrote

I agree. This is why BSL is absolutely necessary and needs to be well written and enforced properly in combination with other legislation.

Pit bulls (no matter what name anyone calls them) are bred to give little to no warning that they will attack because they were bred for dogfighting and other bloodsport. It's an advantage in the ring, or pit ( that's where half of the names "pit bull" and "pit dog" came from, they fight in the pit).

The damage they do when they snap is often...bad. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

They weren't bred to be pets or service dogs, or good working dogs of any kind. I can't see any good reason for anyone to want to intentionally obtain a dog of this breed type or a mix containing a high enough content of said breed type. Some people, though, are misled or tricked into adopting or buying them and that really needs to stop.

Edit: I also want to say that the excessive breeding of fighting breeds is incredibly inhumane for the dogs themselves. They often don't have people to take them in who are fit to take on that type of dog and it's Hell for them when they are basically warehoused in shelters and rescues. It's no surprise that these facilities are often full of them when there's nothing to stop people from breeding them like this. There are some examples of this mentioned in subs like r/petrescueexposed, for anyone curious to see what I'm talking about.

5

poth3lps t1_j1548p8 wrote

There is no do all fix all. It's a solution in response to an issue, yes. The response is, if you ruin someone else's life, be it on purpose or otherwise, it's going to ruin yours. It means "if you don't train your dog, there are major consequences." This isn't gonna be able to be handled by just speaking to one another. Action will need to be taken. People need to be punished. When there is a major consequence to certain things, people tend to work around those things to avoid the consequences. In this particular case, intentionally finding workarounds to having a properly trained dog is commonplace. Thankfully, dogs make it known very quickly without any owner intervention if they are well trained or not. Anyone who has been around 100+ dogs a day knows that, too. (This is not to suggest you don't know that information) If a dog is well-trained, no one bats an eye, if you hear insane amounts of barking and notice your neighbors dog is essentially trying to shatter their living room window to get to some kids playing? THATS FUCKING DANGEROUS MY GUY

I'm not saying I know all the answers or even that you were asking for any from me. I'm just saying that holding people accountable after the fact is a start.

4

the_honeyman t1_j156ttg wrote

Again, you're not wrong.

It's just that punishment after the fact doesn't stop attacks from happening in the first place, which is really what we should be after.

0

ProgressMom68 t1_j154rlx wrote

You realize that tens of thousands of dogs would need to be destroyed? A large majority of which would never harm anyone? Breed is not destiny. For any dog breed. Temperament varies. If you claim every dog of a certain breed is going to act 100% predictable to that breed’s traits, you don’t know shit about dogs.

I feel like the solution is the same as it should be for gun owners. Make people who own potentially problematic breeds carry liability insurance. Give generous discounts for things like fencing, training classes, etc. Have a zero-tolerance policy for biting/attacks. Your dog does that, it gets put down. Like guns, the dogs are not the issue, the owners are. I absolutely guarantee you the dogs involved in this incident gave clear warning signs they were aggressive and it went unaddressed. Shit like this doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

3

Realistic-Sun3480 OP t1_j15luot wrote

I really think that bloodsport breeds, such as pitbulls, need to be phased out. They have no business or use in being pets or any kind of working dog for any purpose and that breed type itself is more dangerous in it's own ways that most other breeds are not.

Along with common sense pet ownership and breeding laws, there needs to be strict laws enforced against breeding them and new pits need to be banned. Banning does not equal automatically euthanizing. If a ban is enacted and enforced like it should be, in several years, all of the pits that were grandfathered in and stayed within city limits would have lived out the rest their lives.

This breed has been bred for fighting for hundreds of years and you can't train gameness, prey drive and aggression out of them. These dogs don't just bite and release when they attack, they maul. The victim(s) very often in these cases will end up sustaining severe or horrific injuries that leave them hospitalized, disfigured, disabled, scarred, nerve damaged, and in many cases dead.

This year alone has seen so many reported pit bull attacks resulting in human fatalities and life changing injuries and way more needs to be done to prevent this. With these, it's not just owners, it's the breed as well.

6

the_honeyman t1_j156g8b wrote

The breed has, from the 1800s, has been bread for fighting, because their temperament, as a whole, is conducive to shutting down everything but the attack instinct.

This is a breed that was bred for bear fighting, then continued having violent tendencies selected for as people transitioned into dog fighting. If you don't understand that, maybe look more into how selective breeding works.

Also, nowhere did I say "destroy all pit bulls," so you can stop putting words in my mouth. The intent was "ban people from obtaining new pit bulls." Extra insurance and punitive measures for the owner don't do a single thing to prevent kids from getting their faces chewed off by an aggressive breed.

3

ProgressMom68 t1_j157k64 wrote

You’re advocating for a full on ban. Where do you suggest these dogs you don’t want people to own go? Again, you’re arguing that breed is destiny. It isn’t. You’re also showing you don’t know anything about dogs or dog fighting. Yes, pits are used in dog fighting but they’re far from the only breed.

A ban just isn’t a pragmatic solution. This is particularly true in Missouri where we can’t even seem to regulate puppy mills. BSL really doesn’t work, anyway.

2

the_honeyman t1_j159dib wrote

You're showing you have no interest in being objective about how the breed has been selected for hundreds of years, or even how selective breeding works. Yes, there are other breeds used for fighting. Pit bulls are and have always been the premier fighting breed for a reason.

Yes, if they wound up in pounds, they'd be euthanized. Better that than more playground attacks and kids missing faces.

3

ProgressMom68 t1_j15h3r8 wrote

You’ve shown that you know zilch about dogs and have an axe to grind about this particular breed. Bye.

0

KrazolS t1_j174ijn wrote

Yeah, let’s regulate dogs n guns the same. Good idea…….wow.

1