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PalPubPull t1_izzxw4g wrote

Reply to comment by FlyWhiteGuyActual in Positive Springfield Growth by VaderTower

But not really viable.

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FlyWhiteGuyActual t1_izzyc1v wrote

a man can dream.

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PalPubPull t1_j0002w1 wrote

I feel ya.

Particularly after Trump won, and after having countless arguments with close friends and family about our differing political views, I pretty much settled on empathizing with them as it was the only way I could even get my foot in the door for an actual conversation rather than us just regurgitating what we've heard from our own sources.

It kind of sucks, because I have pretty strong views on certain issues, but the same talking points that make so much sense to me also come across as attacks toward them. I realized presenting issues the way they were presented to me is completely ineffective in changing their minds without first empathizing with them.

Edit : e.g. the other response to your original comment will lead to nothing but a back and forth of your opinions without empathizing first. Redditors might back one of you more than the other, but it's not going to change either of your minds.

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armenia4ever t1_j02pcgx wrote

This 100%.

So much of this reddit and particularly the MO reddit basically is "Why wont those horrible backwards ism/ist/phobe bigots vote the way I tell them to?!?!" The disdain is enough to immediately turn those people off to any points of agreement and often makes them want to do the exact opposite.

There were so many comments I ran into on this subreddit for the voting up to prop 3 (whatever the recreational weed legalization one was) about bashing ignorant MAGA types that were going to vote against the prop. I know quite a few MAGA types who are heavy pot users and were 100% voting to legalize here. That could have been an opportunity to talk and find something in common, but of course hard lefties here couldnt get out of their own head.

I know at certain points I've been so irked by some of the hard lefties on here when they toss out the various ist/ism accusations that I want to do/vote for whoever they oppose out of spite. Sometimes I stop myself and try to think about their points/overall message and separate it from who is saying it, but that's pretty damned difficult - and most people won't bother to do that.

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PalPubPull t1_j04i35y wrote

Absolutely. This seems like a weird analogy, but I've been obsessed with interrogation videos recently. I often see interrogators who are ineffective and effective, and then during one of the videos I learned a famous interrogation quote along the lines of "If you're arguing with them, you've already lost."

It psychologically makes a lot of sense. And I feel it's the same with everyday interactions.

Of course the interrogator empathizing with a murderer/rapist/child porn criminal finds it disgusting and worthy of punishment. Also not for a second am I relating someone with differing views equitable to these criminals. However, the point is they can have an ongoing discussion with them, even though they have the exact opposite views. Their motives are different than you or me, and even in the conversation they're clearly against those views, but they can understand how they came to have these views.

Through conversational techniques, they can inform someone of their rights that they don't need to talk to them in any capacity (in fact an interrogation would be thrown out in a second if there's any indication they don't understand their rights), but over and over and over the criminals disregard their rights to try and talk their way out of a situation, due to the interrogators technique. Then, the same criminal insistent on hiding their crimes, over and over and over, completely confess to the crime, their motive, and how they did it.

I find it fascinating, and not too dissimilar to talking to someone with a different viewpoint. Of course it's often not as black and white as these criminals, as in the basis of their views have merit in one way or the other, and often I learn things I never would have discussing things with them, but ultimately it just goes to show empathizing is 10000x more effective than just attacking someone, as it opens the door for actual conversation rather than instantly attacking the other person.

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