Comments
robzilla71173 t1_izvf358 wrote
To be fair I don't see how he could be charged with manslaughter or anything like that. The decedent was an adult with plenty of experience and I assume signed a waiver when he joined the hiking club. The lack of a permit might be the only thing that he could be charged with. But it will be something at least. Remember, Al Capone was convicted of tax evasion.
For a while there was a hiking group in spfd led by a highway patrol guy (who coincidentally got a guy wrongfully convicted of murder years ago). He would have these massive camping weekends to try and sell outdoor goods to yuppies and he'd pull the same stuff. I remember trying to hike another relatively unknown trail and I must've had to stop for 20 carloads of his group in a place that could handle 6 cars at best. I despise big groups on trails. Especially for profit. If someone wants to see the things and places I enjoy I think that's something one should share for free.
VaderTower t1_izx4gwr wrote
No matter what waiver was signed it wouldn't absolve the person running the group of negligence.
It could be argued that the group leader was negligent, could be not advising well the dangers. I have no idea but negligence is still very much on the table for a civil suit at the least.
mikefrizz t1_izp7qcp wrote
From what I’ve read, it’s extremely difficult to get a guide permit on federal land. If this guy is on his own and taking six people, I can see why he never bothered.
WendyArmbuster t1_izpi8rv wrote
It should be difficult to get a guide permit. It took me three separate trips to find that trail, as it was less known and there was no signage back then. Now if you go, there's tons of people on that trail, and people like this guy are a big part of the reason why.
[deleted] t1_izv49t7 wrote
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WendyArmbuster t1_izvgjw1 wrote
Yeah, I thought about that as I typed it, and it felt like gatekeeping even as I said it, but at the same time, it's nice to have to work for something. That particular trail is not an official trail, it's not maintained by the park service, it deliberately didn't have signs directing people to it, and that's why it took so long to find it. They don't really encourage people to hike there.
I've got a ton of other places that are amazing that I know about just by wondering around the woods in the Buffalo River park, and it's nice that they are not overrun by "guides" bringing people to them.
There was a big push to dam the Buffalo at one point, and turn it into a recreational lake like Table Rock. It would absolutely be getting more use that way, but I would argue that use isn't the most important thing about public lands.
VEI8 t1_izpnui0 wrote
72414dreams t1_izph73j wrote
Weird
neutral-spectator t1_izrkhzk wrote
A man fell 15 feet into shallow water and it took 47 people to do a search and rescue?
robzilla71173 t1_izvh340 wrote
I'm sure there were at least 2 agencies. Sheriff's dept might be who responded to 911, then park service would be involved. Add in maybe some horse riders if they need to get farther down the trail faster, and an ambulance at the trailhead that might just be there to take him to a clearing for a medivac chopper, plus dispatchers, plus support staff, it can add up. It's a difficult place to get in and out of.
VaderTower t1_izx7w1b wrote
Yeah this is pretty regular for wilderness rescue. Also just think about getting a stretcher to a remote location over rocks, looks, etc.
At best it's slowed down, at worst you have to switch out porters of the stretcher every 10 minutes or something to keep the injured moving out ASAP.
Like you said how close is an ambulance, how close to a spot the helicopter lands.
An absolute logistical nightmare that fortunately they are prepared for!
sgf-guy t1_izvpo49 wrote
I will say, there is a wild case going on with the NPS and the NPPA over filming permits. Steve Lehto on YT covered it recently.
I respect the conservation of NPS lands but there does seem to be a recent surge in people/smaller companies building business models based on federal lands that people may not even know laws/rules exist for.
Have the rules/laws…but make it super clear to find from the beginning.
blurubi04 t1_izp48bo wrote
Just in case there is any confusion: This guy got Federal charges not because someone died due to his negligence, but because he didn’t pay for a business license…