Submitted by [deleted] t3_y1t6p0 in springfieldMO
greenybeanybunny t1_irzjvdu wrote
thanks for the input so far! I truly appreciate it. I was mainly interested in safety issues in Springfield. I appreciate the feedback about the cops, I wasn't aware this was looked down upon in our town. thanks friends :)
emtrigg013 t1_is06bt9 wrote
If you're dead set on trying out the lifestyle, it won't be your Instagram dream in Springfield. You know the crime rate here. Yes it would happen to you. I don't want to put you down, but being 21 and female, I'm assuming living single, and thinking you can pull off vanlife is not wise unless you truly want to invite more danger to your life. You're only seeing pretty pictures, you're not paying attention to the reality. For the love of God stay safe and don't do anything dumb. I'd hate to read about you on the news.
_ism_ t1_is07wiy wrote
Yeah I already commented before but I'm going to second this. Maybe you could do it if you had tons of savings and parents willing to come rescue you or whatever if something happened but a lot of us don't have that and are just trying to survive because that vehicle is all we had. If other people in the same or Worse situations get to know you in the Springfield at least there is a chance that they will Target you because they feel you're rich for having a vehicle. Unfortunately this is how it is and why I ended up with slashed tires and people pounding on my vehicle while I'm trying to feel safe at night because for some reason a 120 pound girl curled up in a car shivering with a fever because she's got nowhere to stay inside with her illness the other people in the neighborhood feel unsafe.
greenybeanybunny t1_is18o2p wrote
actually I've done plenty of research and I know that there is a reality behind "the pretty pictures". it's bad to assume things about people :)
emtrigg013 t1_isge7jx wrote
I remember being 21, too. Sure, try it for 1 year and give us an update.
blu3dice t1_irzw1e8 wrote
Absolutely not. VanLife is incredibly dangerous but in a city with high property crimes rates?!? What do you think happens when a criminal creeping in the middle of the night is breaking into cars looking for spare change or tools to pawn and they come across a young woman asleep in a car?
You've basically done like 99% of the work for them to murder you....in privacy...with a getaway vehicle.
Vanlife is basically gentrified homelessness.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is0gkwe wrote
I know this sub likes to be dramatic but holy shit you all are acting like you're in a soap opera.
>What do you think happens when a criminal creeping in the middle of the night is breaking into cars looking for spare change or tools to pawn and they come across a young woman asleep in a car?
The obvious answer here is that the vast majority of petty criminals would run away as they would have expected the car to be vacant. Do you think petty thieves just rape on command when they get the opportunity?
Van life is dangerous but there's no way OP isn't aware of that at this point. You're all just parroting the same "I know better than you" bullshit like a crazy aunt with an anxiety disorder.
blu3dice t1_is0zyc8 wrote
>Do you think petty thieves just rape on command when they get the opportunity?
Absolutely. Some sexual assaults are crimes of opportunity.
>a crazy aunt with an anxiety disorder.
That's oddly specific. But anyways, no one is offering unsolicited advice.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is1hmwo wrote
>Absolutely. Some sexual assaults are crimes of opportunity
Lmao thank you for the groundbreaking information. Obviously it happens, but it happens everywhere and it's relatively rare. 80% of sexual assaults happen to someone who knows the suspect.
We're constantly at risk of being victims. Houses are broken in to as well, should we not sleep in our house because of the risk of a rapist burglar?
Hell, most populations are at a higher risk of dying from car accidents than anything else, at what point should we be too afraid to drive?
Danger is everywhere and it's unavoidable. It's okay to be risk-averse, but I don't like the idea of constantly living in fear of the worst case scenario.
>Noone is offering unsolicited advice
Yes they are, read the thread more. People are nagging OP about gas prices and insulation and OP confirms that further down the thread
blu3dice t1_is1lvkx wrote
>It's okay to be risk-averse
Wait, what was your original grievance?
Oh yeah ...that it's fear mongering to tell a young woman that living alone in a van parked in downtown Springfield is dangerous.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is2qr2x wrote
Lmfao I love how out of everything in my comment, the only way you could argue was by quoting a disclaimer out of context. Would you care addressing the other points?
There's a difference between risk-averse and letting fear dominate your life. Risk-averse would be making safe investments and driving the speed limit. Telling a woman (who is obviously very committed to vanlife) that she shouldn't live her dream because she'll get raped by a random petty thief is absolutely fucking ridiculous, overdramatic, and a pathetic comment to make.
Go ahead and live your boring life frozen by fear while OP chases her dreams
By the way, the majority of sexual assaults occur at or near a victims home. Better sell your house!!! /s (the sarcasm is obvious but I know you like to take things out of context)
blu3dice t1_is2uq9q wrote
>Go ahead and live your boring life frozen by fear while OP chases her dreams
Productive conversation.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is2zwa0 wrote
Idk if I'd comment too much if i were you, rapists use reddit!!!
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is0gunm wrote
This sub is extremely overdramatic and they like to pretend everything is a survival mission. Insulation would definitely be the biggest issue but that's not even what you're asking about. Most on this post dont even seem to realize how easy insulating a live-in van is. As long as you're researching sleeping spots and clearing it with landowners beforehand (if necessary), you'll be fine. Pepper spray would help of course but I'd say that about anywhere
mangogetter t1_is0poh2 wrote
No. In Springfield, it is illegal even with the permission of the landowner. Even if I gave you permission to park in my driveway or behind my business, all it takes is one neighbor complaining, and you're being hassled by the cops again.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is0rbct wrote
>illegal even with the permission of the landowner.
Can you give me a source on that? The only law I can find that is close to what you're saying is the one passed earlier this year, banning sleeping unauthorized on state land. I've slept in parking garages and friends driveways absolutely no issue.
>and you're being hassled by the cops again.
I should've made my original point more clear. Getting hassled by the cops is a reality in vanlife that OP will deal with anywhere, not just Springfield. I'm sure OP is aware of this and does not need this whole sub nagging her about it rather than answering her question.
mangogetter t1_is0s8a4 wrote
No, the ordinance in question has been around 5+ years. You can probably find news articles about when we tried to get city council to suspend it in 2020 so people could camp during the pandemic while shelters were closed, and were told to bug off.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is1bydm wrote
Hate to be this way, but the fact that you're still not sourcing your claims make me think you're deceptively phrasing the ordinance. I remember the discussion in 2020 but after combing through the official municipal code list, I'm only finding ordinances that support my claim. I only remember the discussion being about benches, parks, and public streets, which the ordinances back up:
Article IV div. 5 Sec. 78-187: Sleeping or resting on premises. No person shall sleep or rest in any area of a business or commercial establishment unless such area is designated for sleeping or resting, except with consent of the owner or proprietor of such premises. Nothing in this subsection shall apply to the regulation of motor vehicles on business premises.
Article IV div. 5 Sec. 78-188: Prohibited. No person, except the owner, tenant or other person in possession, or their invitees, shall remain upon or about any public or private parking lot, or upon any parking lot provided for the customers, business invitees or employees of any commercial or industrial establishment, at any time any such public or private parking lot shall be closed to use by the public or any such commercial or industrial lot shall be closed to use by customers, business invitees and employees.
Article VI div. 10 Sec 106-440: (a) No motor vehicle, motorcycle, trailer, or similar vehicle shall be left overnight in the city parking system, except in spaces specifically designated for overnight parking. Any vehicle left overnight outside of any such designated spaces will be subject to fine. (b) No person shall camp in any lot or garage which is a part of the city parking system
Article VI div. 10 Sec. 106-435: The Springfield Parking System Defined:
(a) The Springfield parking system means any public parking garage or access-controlled surface lot owned or controlled by the city and listed on a schedule on file in the office of the city clerk as provided for in subsection (b). An access-controlled facility is one in which ingress and egress is capable of being controlled through the use of parking attendants present at the time of use or violation, or automated parking equipment in place and available for use regardless of whether or not such equipment is operational and in actual use at the time of any act which would be a violation of this division. It shall be sufficient for purposes of control that the city has the right to manage or direct who may park within such garage or lot at any time during a 24-hour period.
(b) Upon the concurrence of the director of public works and the city manager, a schedule of those parking garages and access-controlled surface lots (facilities) owned or controlled by the city to which this division shall be applicable shall be filed with the city clerk, and upon the posting of permanent fixed signs indicating that the facility is a part of the "Springfield Parking System" and subject to the restrictions contained within the city codes and citing to this division, the provisions of this section shall take effect for anyone parking or using such lot or garage.
With the exception of the downtown area, it sounds like springfield is full of lots that someone could camp in with the owners permission. It also appears there's no legal risk whatsoever in sleeping in a lot or driveway where you have permission.
You connected many dots that weren't there to begin with
mangogetter t1_is1cgal wrote
I am one of Springfield's leading homelessness advocates, I have served on numerous task forces dealing with this issue, and I'm telling you, this is how it is. I don't have time to look up the letter of the law for you right now, but I can assure you this is the actual practice of the city.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is1gc24 wrote
With all due respect, why should I believe you? I tried and tried to find the ordinance specifically banning sleeping in a car of a driveway or private lot with permission and I can't find it. You claim to not have time, yet you have time to send me a link that is almost entirely unrelated to the issue.
If you're as knowledgeable as you say you are, please link the source and prove me wrong. I will 100% accept that I'm wrong if you would just send me the proof.
mangogetter t1_is1lyra wrote
I don't care if you believe me. But I'm right.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is2r2xt wrote
That's fine.
Just know that did my part while you refuse to do yours. I met my burden of proof, and i even tried to meet your burden of proof while you refused to do so. I did my research and literally can't find anything that backs up your claim, it's obvious that you had the same problem otherwise you would have linked the ordinance rather than an unrelated article.
I very very much respect homelessness advocates and the work that is done, thats why I was very open to hearing your side and being proven wrong. With that said, "one of springfields leading homelessness advocates" should be able to ACTUALLY ADVOCATE for the homeless. I, who has no history in homelessness advocacy or city ordinances, was able to navigate the related ordinances and send them to you pretty quickly. Not that it's hard, it was easy. You, one of springfields leading homelessness advocates who claim to already have knowledge of springfield ordinances, isn't able to do half that??? And yes, you had time to reply to my comments with multiple of your own, so you had time to look up the ordinance if you wanted to.
This is why I have absolutely 0 reason to believe you.
No hard feelings. Have a good day and keep fighting the good fight.
mangogetter t1_is1dhii wrote
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is1fupb wrote
Did you send me the wrong article? This is about setting up cold weather shelters for the winter, and the proposed idea is literally to set them up in the parking lots of willing churches and city owned parking lots. Nothing here says that there is an ordinance banning sleeping in your car in a private lot or driveway with permission.
mangogetter t1_is1kcgg wrote
The point is the city would not allow this, even on private (church) property. We asked, the answer was no. We asked for a car parking lot, and a tent area, and the answer was no, because of the anti-camping ordinance.
mangogetter t1_is1mq1a wrote
"As a result, we do not allow residential living in tents and under tarps on any private or municipal property throughout the community in an unregulated fashion," City Manager Jason Gage said in the letter.
This is also enforced against people sleeping in cars. You can fault my sources, but this is absolutely the policy of this city.
wizard_of-loneliness t1_is1orgp wrote
I'm not faulting your sources and you know that. I'm faulting your communication of your sources which has regularly been inconsistent with what the source actually says. You did it once again with this source. I can't read it bc of the pay wall, but tarps and tents were specifically cited in your quotes while you added "enforced against people sleeping in cars" at the end.
If there really was a city ordinance banning sleeping in cars in private lots and driveways like you claim, you would've found that by now rather than sending me news leader articles and misquoting them. You obviously care that I believe you to an extent, so send me the ordinance that you claim exists.
greenybeanybunny t1_is154jw wrote
LOLLLL YES! I am specifically asking about SAFTEY, not how to survive in a van, I've got that research done
Glittering-Plum7791 t1_is2zt80 wrote
Take a look at this article. https://www.safewise.com/blog/safest-college-towns-america/ for the population if Springfield, there is a ton of crime. Maybe just some food for thought. Good luck though!
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