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idontreadfineprint t1_j67arqn wrote

Reply to comment by MikeyLikey41 in Legendary college basketball analyst Billy Packer, who called 34 Final Fours, dies at 82 by HeStoleMyBalloons

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1996/03/06/the-blinding-racism-of-his-comment/0be54cb1-4731-4e52-812e-4f890eaac0e4/

>To understand the racist incident involving CBS Sports analyst Billy Packer on Saturday night, don't stop at Packer's reference to Georgetown guard Allen Iverson, who is black, as "a tough monkey." That was bad enough, but virtually everything that happened after the nationally televised slur revealed the chronic nature of the disease.

>Listen to Packer -- who at first seemingly apologized for the remark -- as he subsequently explains why he shouldn't have to apologize:

>"I don't know why people are sensitive about something that to me, in my way of thinking, has absolutely nothing to do with race," Packer said

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cor_dam t1_j67eqmr wrote

Is that it?

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idontreadfineprint t1_j67imf3 wrote

Https://google.com ?

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SamURLJackson t1_j67tzal wrote

If you're the one calling someone racist then I think it should be you providing the proof

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vaelstresz77 t1_j682ady wrote

Calling a black man a monkey is my proof.

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SamURLJackson t1_j69zfqr wrote

He didn't call him a monkey. He used a phrase that was popular at the time and then you used your Racism Detector decoder ring 40 years later and got upset about it.

There's enough problems in the world without inventing more

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vaelstresz77 t1_j6ahswr wrote

A popular racist phrase that was used at the time 40 years ago, and is no longer accepted because the majority of the country has decided that it is no longer acceptable to compare black men to monkeys period...

It was racist at the time, it's still racist today. Because you believe it's popularity and frequent use some how makes it not racist, I'm going to say you have some unresolved racism yourself.

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SamURLJackson t1_j6alb9p wrote

If the player was white then it'd be ok, though, right?

My point is that it was a phrase people used. It wasn't used on black people exclusively. Examples have been given in this thread of the phrase being used during that era, regardless of race. You've skipped over this and saw "black people" and "monkey" used, and you linked those together. You can argue that you're the one being racist, but I'm not going there.

I'm bowing out of this thread. This is a mess

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vaelstresz77 t1_j67nkfm wrote

"has nothing to do with race".

He is literally saying he does not believe Iverson is human, he believes he is an animal.

What else do YOU need in YOUR mind's eye?

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saysthingsbackwards t1_j67q4zs wrote

I'm sorry, you're moving way too quick here. Can you actually spell it out for us, but with more capitalized accentuated words so I know which ones you're simulating jamming your finger into my chest?

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vaelstresz77 t1_j67qupb wrote

The fact you consider capitalization to be "jamming my fingers into your chest" is weird.

What was too fast for you?

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TooRedditFamous t1_j67s5de wrote

That's clearly not what is being said. Sure its racist to refer to a black guy as a monkey but saying "has nothing to do with race" is not a sign that he literally sees him as an animal you dummy. He's literally just making an excuse saying "it's not a race thing".

The implication is clearly not that he wants to finish the sentence "it's not a race thing because he's an animal" it's, "it's not a race thing because I'm not racist" it was just a poor attempt to cover his back

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NotBullievinAnyUvIt t1_j6807yn wrote

I actually read it as he sees us all as monkeys. Like the whole evolved from apes deal. But maybe I am giving him to much credit.

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[deleted] t1_j67t2ke wrote

[removed]

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[deleted] t1_j67uw3d wrote

[removed]

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vaelstresz77 t1_j67v78b wrote

I wish I didn't delete my other comment to you.

For reference, it said "you're a racist". You have proved my point by literally disregarding thousands of years of racism that was solely focused on the oppressed not being human beings.

Jesus Christ Almighty, you must have been "educated" in the south.

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vaelstresz77 t1_j67v0w7 wrote

You are fooling yourself to think racists don't believe they are animals. Why compare a person to an animal otherwise?

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vaelstresz77 t1_j67w3jl wrote

Tell me, since you are so well versed on the subject of racism. What is the "all encompassing definition" of racism.

Please. Tell me how racists view the people their racism is directed at.

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cor_dam t1_j68sghs wrote

Dude it’s called a metaphor. He is not literally saying the player is a monkey. Sometimes people call someone a monkey as a slur. Sometimes they do it to make a comparison that describes how athletic someone is.

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vaelstresz77 t1_j68v3a8 wrote

You're right, it's a metaphor for not being human....you know being an animal.

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cor_dam t1_j68w36o wrote

Which is not racist. In this context, it’s a compliment because monkeys are superior to humans in the traits that he’s comparing. Michael Phelps is sometimes called the “flying fish” because he, like fish, is a good swimmer.

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vaelstresz77 t1_j696w9i wrote

You are so detached from reality saying it was a compliment.

Phelps being called a fish isn't even comparable you psycho.

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cor_dam t1_j69jnnj wrote

Resorting to gaslighting/insults and no argument, can’t say I’m surprised. I think it’s pretty clear from the responses you’ve received who is detached from reality.

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SamURLJackson t1_j67tkln wrote

That's a turn of phrase that's outdated so people don't know it anymore but it was definitely a thing people said and it wasn't racial. I don't know Packer's thoughts or anything, of course, but if that's your smoking gun then it's not much

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_Retaliate_ t1_j684p1i wrote

I was able to find the phrase being used innocently in Seinfeld, which lends some credence to the possibility of Packer not meaning it in that way. 

That being said, I think regardless of Packer's thoughts when saying it, he should've realized how bad it sounded and he shouldn't have tried to brush it off as people being too sensitive. 

There's just too much history of racists referring to black people as "monkeys" to use that phrase when there are so many other phrases that bring the same meaning across. He could've easily referred to Iverson as a "tough cookie" and it would've had the same meaning without the racial overlap.

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SamURLJackson t1_j6a28gs wrote

Monkey was thrown around a lot in that era to mean a person generally. Pixies had a song in this era called Monkey Gone to Heaven, for example.

This is why it's not doing anyone any good to use 2023 glasses on language from yesteryear in most cases. We lost the context long ago. I only know this from being an 80s kid and remembering how we used to speak. It's interesting how language has evolved, and I think it should be left at that, personally, as a mixed race person myself.

I don't care much about Billy Packer and don't know the guy personally, obviously, but I also think a racist wouldn't choose a career like his, one where he must interact with many black people daily, if he really were such a thing. I just think if this phrase is all we have for proof then the bar should be higher

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vaelstresz77 t1_j682d6f wrote

A turn of phrase that wasn't racial. Explain to me the dynamics of how referring to a black man as a monkey is not racist.

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M635_Guy t1_j696igx wrote

What the hell?? Can't believe he was ever allowed back...

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