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Bosurd t1_jcsux3t wrote

Reply to comment by Optimal_Bad_8965 in Penn State wins the 2023 DI men's NCAA wrestling team title - 10th title in 12 years by abon123456789

What is it about PA that makes them so much better? Are there any other states that come close?

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tribalspoon t1_jcsy2dz wrote

I would say Iowa is still the historically most dominant collegiate wrestling state. But Penn State has absolutely dominated the most recent decade.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they started winning championships after hiring Cael Sanderson (who wrestled at Iowa State.)

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Optimal_Bad_8965 t1_jct8pnb wrote

I'm not just talking college though. Every year there is a wrestling event that has pennsylvania all-stars vs the rest of the US

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travelingchef96 t1_jctcect wrote

Expansive youth programs, quality coaching at all levels. Steel sharpens steel mentality that builds on those other two points.

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CBus660R t1_jctmaca wrote

I grew up in Cleveland. All my friends who were serious about wrestling all went to PA for off-season camps.

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Krogsly t1_jcu8o9x wrote

Proximity matters. Of course, Clevelanders would go to Pennsylvania rather than Iowa, but Ohio is no slouch either. An OH/MI alliance could amass some solid talent in comparison.

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shaggz235 t1_jcuk5i3 wrote

Why not Jeff Jordan’s state champ camp?

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CBus660R t1_jcuq0q4 wrote

Was that a thing back in the 80's? I graduated high school in 1993.

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shaggz235 t1_jcwlrrd wrote

No I went in early 2000s. It was a camp put on by Jeff Jordan who was the coach at St Paris Graham high school. They were so dominant back then, not sure about now though.

Edit: never mind they still are. They’ve won the state tourney every year since 2001.

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DanDampspear t1_jcv3cx6 wrote

People also forget Penn State is coached by Cael, an Iowa state legend who left his Almamater because of the recruiting pool in the east coast compared to Iowa

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samspopguy t1_jcv9egg wrote

Recruiting shouldn’t matter in this situation penn state has kids from all of the place. And Sanderson would still be able to recruit nationally regardles

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DanDampspear t1_jcvlsut wrote

It does matter if you’re second fiddle in your own state both prestige wise and for instate recruits. I was of the age to have high school teammates that were highly recruited by both Iowa and Iowa State programs during his tenure and it absolutely mattered to them as well.

If you lose 9/10 in-state 3 or 4-peat HS champions to your instate rival, you’re going to look for a new recruiting base if Tom Brands is beating you out. Two of the teammates I had went on to win 3 national titles (combined) for Brands rather than Sanderson.

I also don’t think you’re appreciating 1) how Important the Iowa v Iowa state wrestling rivalry is 2) how important geographic proximity is to recruiting 3) How much more population dense the east coast is compared to Iowa. Within 300 miles in Iowa it’s like 20m people vs 70m at PSU.

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BestCatEva t1_jcv2qr0 wrote

Grew up in western PA. Wrestling has been huge for decades there.

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AddisonsContracture t1_jctga3x wrote

In high school though, PA is to wrestling as Texas is to football. If you place top 4 in state, you’re probably going to be too 8 in nationals

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PhDShouse t1_jcv2ltv wrote

Out of curiosity, who would define as the better wrestler: Sanderson or Lee? I know very little about wrestling as a whole, but it seems like Cael had a more impressive college career compared to Lee

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Th595906 t1_jcvk2iu wrote

Sanderson is generally regarded as the greatest NCAA wrestler of all time. Undefeated throughout his entire career. Before him it was Dan Gable. Lee is a great wrestler, but he is the tier right below Cael

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tnc31 t1_jcylgik wrote

Iowa has the second most dominant collegiate program, behind Oklahoma State. But Pennsylvania has about a dozen Division One collegiate wrestling programs.

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Wedoitforthenut t1_jcu2vuy wrote

The state of Oklahoma has over 40 ncaa team championships. Historically Oklahoma is the best state for wrestling.

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TheCannaZombie t1_jcus1gt wrote

For college wrestling yes. But I’d bet most of those kids don’t come from Oklahoma.

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Uncanny_Realization t1_jcterkh wrote

Cael Sanderson. Also, PA in general is an amazing wrestling state. It just breeds great talent.

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Full-Assistance7224 t1_jctiscz wrote

The mid west is an absolute power house in wrestling for example The IHSA wrestling tournament is the single largest attendance of any high school state final. In Illinois alone we had 3 National champions. Big Ten wrestling is unmatched

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TheCannaZombie t1_jctymy7 wrote

I mean Oklahoma state has more all time team (34)and individual(141) championships than Iowa(24)(81). And Iowa beats penn state(11) who is in third. Didn’t see penns individual. Penn state has won all of theirs in the last 12 years. So they are the most dominant school since the 2010s. Before them Iowa state was third with 8 team titles.

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Amojondro t1_jctqn3h wrote

When I went to middle school in PA, there was a middle school wrestling and lax team (I think field hockey as well), vs when I moved to TX I found out none of those teams where in my middle school (TX of course had football tho). I think it’s just PA starts early with it for kids and they’re strong at the coaching levels while doing it. Same reasons why TX is so stacked in HS football: culture of starting early, fantastic funding for it followed by great coaching.

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phl_fc t1_jcu1fi7 wrote

You know how most areas have a kids “kick and chase” soccer program for anyone old enough to walk? PA does that with wrestling. There’s youth wrestling programs for any age, so by the time PA kids get to college they’ve literally been doing it for over a decade.

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boobsarecool t1_jcv2nhf wrote

Yep, PA and NJ both have established youth programs that a majority of states do not. Getting started in wrestling at 8 yrs old instead of High School is a huge step up on top of the very strong wrestling culture in both states

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painfulletdown t1_jcu7515 wrote

winning begets more winning. if you are a premeir high school wrestler, that would be your top destination. sorta like Alabama with college football

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Insamity247 t1_jcuekly wrote

Coaching and recruiting has made them into an absolute juggernaut. Each year they have had multiple National champions, and even when their champions graduate, they have recruited well enough to reload. Their two national champs will be back next year. They will have some holes to fill at 133 and 197, but coaching will get the new guys ready to go. Iowa has struggled with coaching. Our guys aren’t aggressive and going out to score points. We have a good recruiting class this year, but we have a lot of holes to fill. 125 isn’t going to be the same, 133 we need to fill. 149, 197, and heavyweight.

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ryantrw5 t1_jcuhu4g wrote

I think it’s the resources spent. Like Texas football for example. Pennsylvania isn’t a small state population wise either. I can see why Iowa is no longer the place to wrestle.

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RickWolfman t1_jcuuw0v wrote

Minnesota and Iowa are both up there, probably historically more impressive actually.

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