This was a long-overdue step, and I'm glad it finally happened. However, here are a few clarifying details:

1. This happened back in September

2. The unionization only covers players in the affiliated minor leagues (that is, players for minor league teams that are farm teams for a major league team)

3. The team in the picture, the Savannah Bananas, are not and have never been part of the affiliated minors. They were originally part of a collegiate summer league (a type of amateur league in which college players who seem to have at least an outside shot of being drafted by major league organization can get experience using wood bats outside of the college season), but as of this year they are strictly a barnstorming exhibition team, the Harlem Globetrotters of baseball. Their players are not part of the union.

Good. I’ve worked in Minor League Baseball for 25 years.

Some of the players got multi-million dollar signing bonuses. Most did not, and were paid $1,000 per month during the season at A level.

They worked their asses off for very little money, and most of them never made the Major Leagues.

They were expected to work out in the off-season for NO money.

It was EXTREMELY exploitative. And with MLB making billions of dollars, they can certainly afford to pay their employees a living wage.

PS - the team in the thumbnail pic is the Savannah Bananas. They are an independent team, not MiLB. Their players will not see any of the money from the settlement or in their paychecks.

That picture is so weird! Lol

Its the Savanah Bananas! They're the baseball equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters if you've never heard of them before

They are not positive about this.

They're also no longer MiLB, which makes them an odd banner photo choice

Baseball salaries have the highest highs and the lowest lows. Most minor-leaguers get less than college athletes, even before NIL.

A friend of mine was smart enough to ask for a signing bonus when he was drafted. It helped having a cushion for those minor league years. They weren’t offering so he just asked and they coughed up a hundred grand. Pretty good money for 1990.

This article is from last September.

But backflip

/s

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Lol, Savannah bananas. That’s awesome

The best thing for player salaries would be more loss of affiliation. It's all stockholm syndrome. Imagine if there was actually competition for players and not just 1 entity. Minor league basketball players get payed more because they can play in Europe so the NBA has to pay them to keep them. Maybe more Americans need to go to Japan and Korea.

They were the Sand Gnats when they were a summer league team.

They do all kinds of fun shit.

Obviously I don't know the specific situation but as someone who has been drafted (middle rounds) this story doesn't track. A good friend was 3rd round with an agent in 2011 and got 300k. By the time I came through, unless you were a very early rounder and had an agent, you didn't get to negotiate. Take it or leave it. If you are in a position that you might be drafted you are almost always very well educated on the process. "Smart enough to ask" wasn't a thing.

Lots of American players do go to Korea and Japan, but only after it's clear they aren't going to have a major league career in the US.

I don't see how "loss of affiliation" would lead to higher salaries. There are already lots of unaffiliated minor leagues, and they are basically for the guys who aren't good enough to play in the affiliated minors. No player who has the talent to make the majors is going to voluntarily play for an independent league team.

I was like… how is no one talking about how this man is completely upside down and suspended in mid-air?

So much fun to watch.

> Maybe more Americans need to go to Japan and Korea.

Maybe! But the ones good enough to get a lot of money there are good enough to have a likely MLB career and a huge signing bonus that they'd be throwing away.

If it works like that in Basketball and Soccer, I don't see how Baseball as a sport is any different. Even if you did have a potential to play in the majors, would you rather make 20k a year in milb or 120k a year in Korea while you develop? The main problem is more that NPB and KBO have a limit on the number of foreign players they can sign. Now imagine an independent league that had teams in a bunch of large cities, not small towns throughout America. MLB would do everything to stop that from happening.

Unionized? Wait until the chemists hear about this.

Especially "smart enough to ask" and getting 100k in 1990. Chipper Jones got 250k...

I just looked up the Japanese and Korean teams have a limit on the number of foreign players they can sign. I'm sure plenty of Milb players would happily go there for 100k-200k salaries, but those teams wont waste their limited spots on lower level players.

I'm not sure I understand what kind of system you're proposing. Amateur players get drafted by MLB teams, and then are under that team's control for a certain number of years. They play in the minors first because in baseball, more than any other sport, it takes time to develop skills. Newly drafted players aren't ready to play in the majors immediately.

The draft, and the years of team control, are important for parity. MLB has more parity than any of the other North American sports leagues, and MUCH more parity than the European soccer leagues. I think that's a good thing.

You seem to be proposing a system where there's no draft and every amateur player just becomes a free agent. So, for example, a guy who would be a top draft pick can instead sign a 1-year contract with a Korean team, and then try to sign on with a major league team the next year? Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

There are independent teams just a few miles outside of NYC. The veteran (i.e. highest paid) players make a few thousand a month and that's only in-season. I last worked for one of them back in 2009 and the veteran cap was $3000/month. I'm assuming it's gone up at least a bit since then, but it's not like they're making bank. Rookies made $800/month.

Yes, thats exactly what what I'm saying. Now imagine the Japanese league, Korean league, Mexican league, an imaginary Canadian league and another American league all vying for those players. Now MLB would have to pay minor league players more to get them to sign. Also the MLS has great parity and their draft is meaningless. Its all to do with the salary cap, not the draft.

Sorry, all the unionized chemists Argon.

Because why would they pay more? They probably have zero fans that actually care if they win. Those leagues embrace the mickey mouse family event atmosphere. Look at the USL Championship in soccer. They pay more because they actually want to win and embrace fans that care. Those baseball teams are usually in little tiny towns with no people too.

Damn it, take my upvote

I've never heard of this before. Amazing, thanks for sharing

That hit on stilts truly deserved #1

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I'm saying that these are teams in major metropolitan areas.

Give me an example?

New Jersey Jackals and Rockland Boulders. A little further out you have the Sussex County Miners.

Lookup the Frontier League. It's the only league I'm familiar with (I worked for a team that used to be in the league - but the team was in a small town and the league outgrew it). They have teams in the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago areas. Those are the only 3 teams I can think of off the top of my head. I'd guess the other teams are all near major markets or the main attractions in tertiary markets.

Independent baseball (and high-level college, wooden bat leagues) is awesome and well-supported by their local communities.

They both play in a league with a tiny salary cap and wierd player rules trying to be farm teams in everything but name. I wonder how many fans they have? I bet they would get a lot more if they took themselves seriously.

Jackals draw about 2000/game, but they're moving to a stadium that's about 2x the size of Yogi Berra Stadium.

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Do you think it could be bigger if they started paying players more and getting better players or fans just don't give a shit about that?

Why stop there?

Absolutely. That's a pretty big signing bonus for 1990. I worked sports medicine for several years for a fairly high-level college wooden bat team. We'd have a couple guys get drafted each year. Some guys would play for us for a year or 2 and then go to the Cape Cod league and get drafted after that.

We had one kid once who had a pretty horrific, non-baseball injury. He was on track to be an early/mid round pick before the injury sidetracked him.

He rehabbed for 2 years, missed 2 seasons of college, and one season of summer. He went undrafted (because he hadn't pitched in 2ish years and no one knew if his limbs worked properly). He made his first start since the injury with us and did very well. He started 5 or 6 games before getting signed.

They gave him a $35k signing bonus but I'm pretty sure he only got that because he was highly thought of before, was stellar in 5 or 6 games, and most importantly, he was on the open market and held a bidding war that drafted players can't do.

All our other players, who I stayed in touch with or heard through the grapevine later, never got signing bonuses unless they were picked very early (like top 3-5 rounds or so). Most stick sryound for 1-3 years and then dissappear into selling insurance or working baseball clinics.

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They’ve never been MiLB haha, so yes very strange picture choice

No. It's great for what it is but it will never compete to get "the best" players and honestly, except for the big time prospects (that are only hyped because the MLB fans are excited about the future), no one cares if you're a "2nd division" player or a "5th division" level player. They're all GREAT baseball players and it's fun to watch them play up close and personal. Independent ball has a niche where fans can get up close and personal. Stadiums are small (but often very nice and they host lots of tournaments for high schools and colleges) and attendance is low and you have access to players and coaches like you don't get at other levels.

I've seen or worked at all levels of baseball and there is something special about every level. The majors are a huge spectacle. The best players in the world trying to win the championship of the entire world. But they're also distant. You can't see them. You can't touch them. Many of them dislike you (check out comments many made about how great it was playing without fans or media during the covid year).

AA and AAA (and to a lesser extent A) are young guys trying to take that last step to a lifetime dream. Or veterans who are 1 injury away from getting back. The promos are more fun. The stadiums are smaller. The atmosphere is chill because no one knows who won the AAA championship last year except people who were in the stadium.

College Wooden bat, and Independent leagues are hit or miss but the good ones are great. The shitty ones are guys playing on community college fields with 43 fans but the good ones can get 2-8k fans. The promos and fan engagement is awesome. You can usually walk right up to the fence and get autographs. Players often don't have a tunnel, so they walk through the stands and get high fives from the kids. I worked for a team like this (medical) and just sat on the edge of the dugout. I'd get kids all the time that wanted so and sons autograph (or even mine which was weird since I'm just a fat guy with a team tee shirt) and I'd get it for them between innings. Some of our players went on the the majors. Most didn't. All of them were very very good college players and it was high level, fun baseball.

For what it's worth, I've been told by "baseball people" and from what I've seen have no reason to disagree, that in terms of quality of play, good Independent league ball is equivalent to being slightly below AA but definitely better than A. (Again, it varies greatly. I'm sure there are shitty leagues that are really bad. The Sugar Land Skeeters had Roger Clemons just a couple years after he last pitched in the majors and Tracy McGrady -very good baseball player- shortly after his NBA career).

Well it's a photo, he's gonna be suspended there for all time

And its picture is of the baseball version of the globetrotters who have nothing to do with the minor league or its union

Good. Also, what will this mean for future ticket prices?

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-The savannah banana pitcher is now throwing the ball like a cricket player

The Savannah Bananas are not a minor league team. I’m a former season ticket. They used to be part of the Coastal Plains League, a college development league but now play a stupid version of baseball that involves TikTok dances and idiotic stunts. They play in historic Grayson Stadium where Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Mikey Mantle played. The sport is dead in Savannah and these baseball legends are spinning in their graves. Jesse Cole sucks!

That is one helluva picture! Wow!

True enough.

They’re great unless you’re a fan of baseball

Nope, completely different organizations. Sand Gnats were NY Mets minor league team that left Savannah for Columbia SC cause City of Savannah wouldn’t pony up for better facilities.

Bananas are formally a Coastal Plains League “summer” team. They were unaffiliated with MLB and made up of mostly college players. They bring a whole new level of entertainment to their games and eventually left their league to become an exhibition (think Harlem Globetrotters) team. They are wildly fun and popular, on top of being really talented players. I wish they still played in a league, just for the variety of competition.

Everyone in r/baseball loves them

I was gonna say, since when are the Bananas in the minors? Will I get to see them play the Pickles this summer?

Do you also hate the Harlem Globetrotters? Chillax dude

Amazing they used a savannah bananas picture. They arent even a baseball team.

As a huge fan of baseball, I think they are fantastic

Or not having fun

It’s not baseball. It’s TikTok dances and bat tricks.

Nah, people who truly love the game will appreciate anyone out there actively promoting the sport in any form they can - especially if they make it fun for people who aren't the typical fan.

No, i am a fan of the rich history of baseball. This adds nothing to the game.

Your opinion and $2.75 gets me a ride on the train.

It’s fun for people who do to minor league games for the between-inning hijinx, little kids and teenage girls. Anyone who goes to watch actual baseball will be bored after 15 minutes.

So dead tickets are hard to get! Or sold out every game. Either way.

I figured they just got sold to the carnival barker guy and lost their affiliation.

That’s like saying the Harlem Globetrotters don’t play basketball. Dumb

How many Bananas games have you been to? I’m guessing you’re just another uninformed boob.

Other than young fans, money, and national recognition, nothing.

Reminds me of Jerma baseball

Young fans that care nothing about baseball only TikTok dances, no money for struggling minor league players and spotlights something that ordinary people in Savannah could give two shits about.

They also disbanded the college team after last season to focus strictly on the banana ball pro team that everyone sees all over social media

Keep guessing. Been to plenty enough to know it’s good for the sport, but not so many since I moved out of Parkside.

I would say the globetrotters do play basketball. Or at least entertain as such. But the bananas are pretty clearly playing bananaball, not baseball. It’s their whole deal.

How does this get fans? How does this get money? How is this recognition?

Wow, didn’t know you were the arbiter of what’s good and bad for baseball. What an honor to meet such an important person.

After the 11th round currently 100k of signing bonus doesn't count towards the cap so I could very easily see them giving 100k signing bonus because you asked, especially if they like you.

They are downvoting but you are not completely wrong. People on reddit people are naturally more open to something like this but there are tons of baseball fans who are very much not into it and even actively dislike it lol

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Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Mikey Mantle, Jackie Robinson all played at Grayson Stadium. What do you think they would think about Banana Ball?

I mean the attendance for Sand Gnats games was also kinda shit for the last couple years. The games weren’t terrible, but compared to the bananas, they were kinda, idk, depressing.

And I don’t know what they were asking for from the city in terms of facilities, but I can see the city being reluctant to do anything to Grayson Stadium (being a historic landmark is gonna make any kind of repair more expensive) for a team struggling with attendance (something the bananas have never had an issue with)

Anyways serves them right after replacing Nick the Gnat with Nate /s

Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron all played at Grayson Stadium. Wonder what they would think of Banana Ball?

Their entire 2023 season is sold out too.

This is the most rediculous shit I've ever seen! Some would even say that this shit is BANANAS!

I mean, the team that played there before them was a MiLB team, that played “real” baseball, and I can tell you, everyone at those games was bored after 15 minutes

And not covered by this agreement.

This guy Bananas.

Agreed. It was a little sad, but Gnats played way more games, so attendance was a little watered down. I think Bananas are trying to get new facilities now also.

I do feel they’ll end up victims of their own ambition and ditching league play was short-sighted. But their games are fun as hell.

Also it was Gnate the Gnat, put some respect on his name lol!

The Sand Gnats were great. You didn’t have to stand in line for 3 hours only to not get a seat in the grand stand. And there were no players stripping on the dugouts and 1st base coaches dry humping the ground to Miley Cyrus songs. They just played actual baseball.

Yeah fr dude own one of the hardest things to get in Savannah and said no thanks I’m good..

And how much is yours worth?

The quality of baseball they play is pretty much the same to almost everyone that isn’t a scout, the bananas just actually try to make it fun when they’re not playing (and when they are but something tells me breakdancing base coaches aren’t gonna appeal to you lol). It’s not like the Gnats saw major league level talent that often. The last major leaguer player I can think of to play for them was Ryan Zimmerman for like two weeks before he was moved up because he was actually good.

Whether it’s your thing or not, it’s making baseball more popular, and that’s good for the sport. I mean, there’s probably been more people that have gone to Grayson Stadium in the last 3 years than the previous 10.

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Not exactly, they only sell tickets about 2 months in advance, so anything after May isn’t really available yet. But they had so much interest that they had to do a lottery and stop presale registration.

Not surprised. The Gnats weren’t wrong for wanting upgrades, but the bananas actually have leverage now.

Plus, considering they’re sold out until 2030 it seems like, idk why they don’t put stands back over in left like they used to have (although idk if the gnats had used them since smoltz played a game there on a rehab stint once lol)

And honestly, I wouldn’t be too surprised if they outgrew the city in and started playing mostly elsewhere kinda like how the globetrotters don’t really play in Harlem. I mean, last I heard, the bananas had more Twitter/instagram followers than every single MLB team. I don’t blame them for trying to capitalize on that.

They don’t play baseball they play banana ball It’s not even the same sport with the same rules. There are zero stakes. This was a game created by out-of-towners for out-of-towners. And once all the droves of people have seen the dry humping and stilts hitting once and there’s no real baseball to sustain real fans of the game, it will fade like another TikTok fad.

Probably nothing. Econ 101 - Cost is always just a baseline, but in a free market with limited barriers to entry price gets kind of forced to track along it. The mlb is a monopoly though and there are big barriers to entry, so they already price to "what the market will bear".

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I meant when they did play baseball. Wasn’t trying to argue banana ball was that same lol.

And on one hand I do understand why you’d be put off if it’s something for out-of-towners (I don’t think it is, seasons tickets are sold out for the next 3 years or something), but it’s not like this is some tourist trap (just be thankful it’s way too far for bachelorette parties pedal those party bikes to from downtown lol)

If what you’re looking for is competitive, no fluff baseball that may or may not be of any to anyone who isn’t a baseball fan, yeah the bananas ain’t it. But I still think it’s good for the sport to try and capture some new fans, even if this is just a fad, or whether they’re able to keep some longevity.

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Have you heard of barnstorming? Many of the players you listed participated in it, and many elements are similar to Banana Ball. It’s not traditional baseball and it’s not supposed to be. It’s an entertaining variation.

“Batters hit one-handed or on their knees. Satchel took his warm-up throws sitting down, with his catcher stationed behind the plate in a rocking chair. Best of all was a riff called shadow ball. The hitter swung so hard, fielders reacted so convincingly, and the runner tore down the line so fast that fans could hardly tell that it was pantomime. It was baseball so brilliant it could be played without the ball.”

I would have been much happier if they would have stayed in the CPL and played Banana Ball. It would have been something for everybody. Granted summer time is way too hot in Sav to be outside doing anything and one of the benefits was that Jesse could control the schedule. Also there were a ton of rain outs and make up games I’m sure he was losing his shirt on. But at least it was up and coming college players getting to play in front of a supportive fan base. And all the visiting teams got to play in a charged up environment. Local families used to house the players for season tickets. But the connection to the community is now gone. It’s all for likes and adds and let’s face it, money.

There was someone drafted a few towns over from me and there was a quote from an interview with him basically saying he was told to stretch his signing bonus over five years.

His signing bonus was $500.

That’s why the guy in the pic is jumping off a building. Protesting lack of banana unionization.

I mean, I’m happy for the minor leaguers but are the Bananas part of that union?

Didn’t mention Satchel Paige. I didn’t see in that article any of the players I mentioned. But you might be referring to that time Mickey Mantle wore oversized pants and caught bananas thrown at him from the grandstands.

How did that gentleman get upside down?

[Looking at the picture]

I thought Hideo Nomo had a weird pitch.

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B A N A N A S

Who do they play anyway?

Party Animals

The St Paul Saints were an independent minor league team for most of their existence, until COVID came along. Honestly, the baseball was usually pretty lousy overall, but the games were always a ton of fun. Now they’re the AAA affiliate for the Twins, and the atmosphere has stayed pretty similar, with better baseball being played as well, for the most part. Granted, the were just sold to a new ownership group, so who knows what we see in the future.

Edit - Just to add, the pay for the independent teams was comically bad, even compared to minor league salaries, IIRC. I tried out once when I was younger and in much better shape. I did not make the team, they still had some standards, even back then.

This was actually Don Rainsmith who fell from a helicopter performing a stunt for the Savanah Bananas (like globetrotters). His death sparked the unionization so actually it's pretty fitting.

They play normal baseball games against competitive teams as well as bananaball. Look at their schedule

Babe would absolutely have a beer on the field and hit dingers

Oh yeah, exactly like Banana Ball.

You should write a song!

So you’re saying the Bananas won’t be to scale?

Love the ump's restrained vibing at 2:40

What team do you work for? What kind of position?

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I guess maybe they saw something in him. He was pitching over 100 mph. Maybe it does take a little more than asking.

That it’s literally a baseball game.

You really think a bunch of kids Back in the day of growing up on street ball never played any variations on the game?

The same fella owned another CPL team, the Gastonia Grizzlies, and was known for crazy promos and shit like a concessions item called the trash can nachos, and "all you can drink and eat" tickets. They had someone on staff whose title was "The Ticket Leprechaun" (hi Jake!)

The owner Jessie was always dressed in a yellow suit, like a cross between The Man in the Yellow Hat from Curious George and Gatsby.

I imagine a lot of the meals the players got looked much like the ones in the pictures about shitty food, and the players' host families for the Summers did a bulk of the good feeding.

They are formerly the Sand Gnats, who were a Mets minor league affiliate.

No, the Sand Gnats were a totally unrelated team that also happened to be located in Savannah. They relocated to Columbia, SC in 2016 and changed their major league affiliation to the Kansas City Royals in 2021.

https://www.atlanticleague.com/clubs/league-directory/

Somebody searched for "baseball team celebrating" without much critical thinking. Bananas used to be a CPL / college summer ball team that is basically an all Am team as far as I understood those rules.

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To be honest, this way of thinking is just so foreign to how I think. Maybe because I'm mainly a soccer fan. But soccer fans do not support minor league teams. Nobody will show up unless its an independent team. Even the biggest teams in the world, maybe a few dozen people are showing up for the reserve teams. I get the "entertainment" thing, but why would any serious fan care at all about a reserve team or a faux reserve team.

I knew minor leagues unionization had already happened, I figured this meant an offseason agreement taking effect with the leadup to this season

> idk if the gnats had used them since smoltz played a game there on a rehab stint once lol)

MLB rehab visits often seem to be where huge minor league attendances come from

https://www.milb.com/rochester/ballpark/frontier-field

The local AAA park, 2nd baseball attendance record is that, 1st and 4th are exhibitions against the major league affiliate, 3rd is Hideki Irabu during his short stint in the minors transitioning from Japanese baseball

Not related o the story itself, but what is with this picture choice I thought this was a still from from shaolin soccer. Got my hopes up for a sequel.

I heard pronouncing unionized is how you tell apart a scientist and a plumber

Thats what im saying. Nobody wants to support a farm team or a glorified farm team. They dont get people going to the games to watch baseball, they get people by being a "fun" family friendly day out, not disimilar to going to the zoo. If the Saints were an independent team in a league that the teams payed decent and cared about winning it would probably be sold out every game for the same prices.

The guy in the middle is from Australia 🇦🇺

best accompanying photo EVER.

Didn't they sign Carlos Correa a few months ago?

Your stereotyping is offensive and blatantly wrong… impressive

For what it’s worth, saints game are usually pretty packed, for minor league games. Not exactly sell outs, but they averaged something like 6,000+ per game, in a 7,000 or so seat stadium. The Saints also have the advantage of being in just across the river from their MLB affiliate. So Twins fans can go see their top prospects easily.

When the Saints were an independent team in an independent league, their attendance was falling, but still not bad, at under 5,000 a game. But that was at an ancient stadium. They moved right around the time they become an affiliate. Hard to really say if the attendance increase is due to the gorgeous new ballpark, the affiliate stuff, or both. Probably both.

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What a fail. Using a picture of Savannah Bananas, when they aren’t even a MLB minor league team. They are an exhibition team.

What’s funny is they aren’t a mlb minor league team. There’s literally no reason this pic should be used for this article.

Now it's time for fans to unionize!!

I love the fun they bring but as a local I would love for them to get new facilities or just commit to the road full time so regular baseball could come back into Grayson.

I’ve lived in much smaller cities with low tier ball teams and loved nothing more than casually attending cheap games, grabbing a seat and getting ballpark concessions.

Honestly it’s the needing to buy suddenly announced tickets on flash sale months in advance that kills it for me. They’ll send me an email that there’s going to be another email tomorrow that releases tickets for a few days, so then I have to message any friends I would want to go with on a weekday morning to ask if they want to go to a baseball game in 3 months.

And this will be the end of minor league baseball. The major league clubs have already been shedding affiliates. They are just going to invest more in Caribbean and South American academies. The draft is going to be much shorter. Open tryouts and stuff like that.

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he’s joking.

Fuck me. That dudes upside down.

Cuz I ain't no holla back girl!

This was straight-up bananas. B-a-n-a-n-a-s. But, really, this was so funny and entertaining.

Look into them.

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Excellent news… way over due

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Bro you can't unironically say this when you did the exact same thing like 3 comments ago. Have an ounce of self-reflection, please.

And apparently they’re also capable of defying gravity

I cannot offend you, only you can get offended. You probably work for the Bananas as I’m sure they spend thousands of dollars employing keyboard warriors to protect their brand from any dissenting opinions.

Jackie Robinson Barnstorming

Babe Ruth Barnstorming

Hank Aaron (and Willie Mays) Barnstorming

Ironically, the only one I couldn't find a sufficient example of is Mantle, who you've given an example of silly antics for me. I guess my overall point is to keep in mind that different variations of baseball have always been played, and the Savannah Bananas are simply adding to the history. You may not like the TikTok dances, and that's completely fair (I hate TikTok culture), but it's more than that. I stream a lot of their games and am very entertained watching that version of baseball. I also watch "traditional" baseball every day and enjoy that, but that doesn't mean I can't get down to what the Bananas are doing.

They're coming to my town. Really wanted to see them, but I wasn't selected for the ticket lottery 😞