Number of manned orbital launches by year, 1961-2022Submitted by firefly-metaverse t3_10oayad in space
corsairealgerien t1_j6dn6zx wrote
It will be quite something if China end up 'winning' the current 'space race' by building a permanent hub on the Moon, or getting a person to Mars, before anyone else after coming from behind like this. NASA is back on a 'war' footing now though, and Russia is a little distracted right now, so let's see what happens. Would be better if everyone just cooperated, but that ship has absolutely sailed for the near future.
MisinformedGenius t1_j6eootv wrote
I mean, NASA did the same thing - we were way behind the Soviets when Kennedy started the Apollo program.
corsairealgerien t1_j6fianl wrote
I recall reading, or maybe hearing on a podcast, somewhere that NASA top branch were not aware before JFK announced it and learned about it from his speech - but I've not been able to find anything corroborating that anywhere I searched. I'm sure I read it somewhere and did not dream it.
bremidon t1_j6hyqcq wrote
>we were way behind the Soviets
That is a myth that somehow keeps getting wilder as the years go on.
The States were, on a purely tech basis, either even or slightly ahead of the Soviets the entire time.
The Soviets had three huge advantages though. They had Korolev, they had a great spy network, and they had a system that let them put safety a bit lower in the priority list.
This let them try stuff earlier. The usual game plan was to figure out when America planned to do something and then throw everything into doing it first. Korolev was an absolute genius at making it work. All in all, it was a strategy that seemed to bear fruit.
The problem with this strategy was exposed with the race to the moon. This was not something you could just throw together at the last minute. Even worse, Korolev died, leaving the program without the guy who somehow always figured out how to make it happen.
Even the Soviets realized the futility of it all. After a half-hearted attempt to continue with the program after the U.S. got to the moon, the Soviets had to give up completely on that.
They did develop some pretty cool engines and had a decent LEO program that went on up until the Soviet Union fell.
But the idea that the U.S. was behind or *way* behind the Soviets at any point is simply not consistent with the facts.
MisinformedGenius t1_j6ix7ch wrote
What? The fact is that they were the first nation to launch an object into orbit, the first nation to launch a man into orbit, the first nation to launch an object into orbit around the Moon, and many other firsts. They had put two satellites in orbit by the time our first attempt blew up on the pad.
Yes, of course they were behind the US by the time we got to the Moon, but when Kennedy announced the Apollo program, we were without a doubt behind them. Can you name anything at all we did before the Soviets before, say, 1965?
The idea that they were behind us yet somehow would figure out what we were already doing and beat us to the punch despite our head start is nonsensical to say the least.
bremidon t1_j6ltp1n wrote
>What? The fact is that they were the first nation to launch an object into orbit, the first nation to launch a man into orbit, the first nation to launch an object into orbit around the Moon, and many other firsts. They had put two satellites in orbit by the time our first attempt blew up on the pad.
Well, your username fits at least.
Yes, those are all true, but also incredibly misleading, and apparently you failed to understand what I wrote.
Again, once more for the kids who came in late at the back: the Soviets would find out when the States were going to do something and then throw everything at beating them to that. Go back and read my previous post for more information. The summary is that they were never technologically ahead of the States; they were just better at using what they had to get those "firsts" you mentioned.
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>The idea that they were behind us yet somehow would figure out what we were already doing and beat us to the punch despite our head start is nonsensical to say the least.
You may find it nonsensical, but that is probably because you are misinformed. Go back to your studies, actually read dry and boring historical records, and then it will make more sense.
The51stDivision t1_j6fa9dg wrote
Even if China builds the first moon base, Americans can just move the goalpost and say the finish line is actually landing on Mars. If the USA first lands on Mars, Chinese can just say the finish line is actually building a Mars base… or vice versa.
IIRC neither the CNSA nor NASA have claimed anyone’s launching any “space race.” The whole thing is just fanned up by politicians and media and doesn’t actually mean anything.
corsairealgerien t1_j6fhgva wrote
I agree with your first point, it's what the US and Soviets did in the 60s, but the NASA chief did recently literally say they were in a space race with China: "It is a fact: we're in a space race," the NASA administrator told Politico in an interview published Jan. 1. "And it is true that we better watch out that they don't get to a place on the moon under the guise of scientific research. And it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they say, 'Keep out, we're here, this is our territory.'"
ChronicBuzz187 t1_j6hv3ot wrote
>And it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they say, 'Keep out, we're here, this is our territory.'"
The small-mindedness of this.... going to the moon or mars not to advance the entire species but to say "Look, we're the best and smartest humans on earth because we somehow made it here" when you really just build upon the work of generations that came before.
And we always have to "beat each other there" because... well... we don't really know except so we can bang out chest and tell everybody how great we are. No real point in it but that never prevented us from doing it, right?
bookers555 t1_j6m7eri wrote
Because that's how the human brain is wired, it works best under competition, it's simply a matter of evolution.
If the first space race hadn't ended we would have seen Moon bases a long time ago.
Dutch-Spaniard t1_j6g6bm7 wrote
>Keep out, we’re here, this is our territory.
That’s the most China thing I’ve heard
bookers555 t1_j6gxvgd wrote
The current space race is the only reason the SLS finally got off the ground.
[deleted] t1_j6dxtln wrote
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corsairealgerien t1_j6fi3wz wrote
Yes, probably. JFK actually proposed a joint US-Soviet manned moon mission, which was well received by the Soviets but never really advanced since he was assassinated a couple of months later, and LBJ shelved any plans for cooperation committing instead to Apollo.
KiwieeiwiK t1_j6jjy55 wrote
the current timeline has NASA getting humans back to the moon slightly before China but that could change
Either way I don't think either space program sees the other as an adversary in any way, it's purely political games. China would happily collaborate with the US on space tech, however it is against US law for NASA to cooperate with China
[deleted] t1_j6hi817 wrote
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