The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 forbids governments from declaring sovereignty over celestial bodies, and I presume that would extend to companies claiming private ownership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

Granted that's likely to change if we can more easily get there and hash out new laws, but for now it seems that ownership is still forbidden.

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Good to know that I can take my tin foil hat off.

No. How would that even work? They just sent a few cameras and sensors, and now they get to own the land?

The only reason I knew about that was through research for a sci-fi novel I started. Basically the age-old "parent nation establishes a colony and taxes it, colonists remember they're on a different-frigging-planet and declare independence." It's still in really bad shape lol, but I hope that we can get ahead of any interplanetary conflicts before they start.

I was referring to a man’d mission.

They're planning on sending people to start settlements.

They can lay a claim, but that doesn't mean that anyone will honor that claim. It's the wild west.

Plus, the Outer Space Treaty forbids ownership of celestial bodies.

Once people are living up there it should be an interesting conversation

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There haven't been any manned missions to mars, and (as far as I know) there aren't any concrete plans to do one.

It's just manned by the way.

Might seems to make right here. Laws back home on terra don't mean much if they can't enforce them on the red planet, right?

I suppose sanctions can be had back on terra, but this seems very likely to be settled by common law concepts like dominion and possession.

Basically, I almost guarantee it's going to end up as, you go there, and whatever is under your control, being defined by what you've managed to improve upon (infrastructure) is yours.

“Possession is 9/10th of the law” Yeah, you can claim ownership over anything you want. But you need to be able to protect it to keep it.

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That sounds like an interesting novel! When its ready id love to read it, just let me know where i can purchase it or add me to any list you have for notifications :)

On a weird tangent, are you an English speaking native perchance? It's funny to see terra written in an English context since it's the word for earth in romance languages (and sol for sun) of which I'm a native speaker.

That was the question in a way was alluding to. How would “protecting it” look like? Governmental restrictions against a company like SpaceX back on earth? Lawsuits? Physical war on the planet?

Only if he owns a secret volcano lair first. There are steps to be taken before laying claim to planets.

Laws and treaties get broken every day.

It takes 3 things to make a law... 1) the definition and elements that comprise the criminal act, 2) the punishment for the criminal act (may include incarceration and fines, or just fines, or just incarceration but it MUST include one type of punishment), and finally, 3) the ability, authority to enforce that law.

If any one of the above is missing or absent, it is not a real law ... more like a suggestion and nothing more.

Hello u/--Lavish--, your submission "If SpaceX is the only company to land on mars for years, can they lay claim to the land?" has been removed from r/space because:

• Such questions should be asked in the "All space questions" thread stickied at the top of the sub.

Please read the rules in the sidebar and check r/space for duplicate submissions before posting. If you have any questions about this removal please message the r/space moderators. Thank you.

Best answer yet. Treaties and laws are meaningless the real question is do you have the fire power to stop someone from taking it from you.

Why bother claiming it if there is no one to contest the claim?

You can’t make claims to the land, but you can certainly retain ownership of the infrastructure you put up there. If (somehow) Musk built a city on Mars, he’d be able to charge for its use.

When humans colonize planets/asteroids for practical purposes like resources/GDP you better believe corporations and countries will stake claims and territory.

Right now it's just curiosity and science. But when when colonizing space brings massive profits you better believe humans will go back to tribal and territorial ways.

Lets say SpaceX lands on Mars and Elon claims Mars as "his". Neither the United States nor any other government has the means to do a damned thing about if we don't have the means to get to Mars ourselves! That means Mars is now corporate owned!

Oh..... but wait a minute. SpaceX is a US based company and is subject to US law. We can't directly touch their colony on Mars but we can make it impossible for SpaceX to communicate, profit from, or resupply said Martian colony.

English is my first, and only language. I speak a miniscule amount of German, but not enough to claim it. Even less French, Spanish and Italian.

But I enjoy words. I have a bit of a natural ear for etymology... I've been accused of being a wordsmith, but I'm really just a dumb redneck.

Who is?

Nobody with a functional brain.

Depending on what specific laws are used, he can claim parts of Mars. You can't claim the whole planet certainly. But if you had a robot colony that was mining a section of the planet making structures on it you could certainly claim that.

The big trick is enforcement, you need to be able to reasonably stop the use of your property for it to be your property. Normally on earth this just means that a government will use its framework of laws to do that, but US courts cannot enforce territorial claims outside of US sovereignty.

Right now what we are seeing is a big game of kick the can down the road. Until you get livign human beings onto a celestial body, anyone's guess is fair game. Perhaps you'll see some movement if asteroid mining becomes a thing in the near future, but I think we'll see a permenant outpost first due to the legal quagmire.

one thing i am %100 sure. one day martians will seek independence and they will fight for it 🙂

You're too kind. :D It's my first and only novel so far and I promise it's a total mess. I might return to it someday but for now it's stashed away lol.

But just to stir your imagination a little, it's called New Albion's Bargain. That scenario I mentioned is sort of a backdrop for the main events, which are inspired by the legend of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. In the original story, Sir Gawain sees his chivalric values challenged and suffers negative consequences every time he messes up. My treatment follows a starship captain who's given the chance to reject his authoritarian junta and empathize with the "rebels" who never agreed to being ruled in the first place.

I dare say it's a cool idea but I feel I don't quite have the skill or motivation to make it publishable. :/

That is a good detail to include, thank you.

The US government could do alot of things. But we're reaching a point where transnationalism is a thing (or have reached that point). Some corporations can now, and will in the future, operate with limited government influence, as those corporations have more leverage against government than government has against them.

What percentage of SpaceX revenue is currently provided by the US DoD? Can the DoD currently replace the services SpaceX provides?

Now fast forward a decade or two and run the math again.

Human systems of governance aren't well equipped currently to manage multinational corporations with GDPs that would put them in the G20, nevermind multiplanetary corporations with G7 level economic influence.

Why was the OP acrubbed? I'm a reddit neophile, so I don't follow the culture here.

Pizzaazz… project big D energy… boost low self esteem… affect stock prices… should I continue?

If they can self-sustain, grow and defend it, then yes it’ll be independent. Plot twist is after thousands of years and forks in evolution whether these 2 species will continue to regard each other as the same. Then we would have basically seeded our own aliens.

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…and Elon Musk has the perfect alien energy to be their founder

You wouldn't need any new laws or anything. It's just regular illegal activity. So there'd be regular old arrests, lawsuits, ect depending on the situation.

Return to it one day! It sounds great. I think i read somewhere that Nolan had plans for the film Dunkirk, but didnt feel he had the skill or experience to make it what he wished. So he returned to it later on Good luck!

Yeah I enjoy language immensely, I am fortunate enough to have a knack for it and I become very engaged when people use out of the ordinary vocabulary due to so many years of vocabulary acquisition. It's kind of funny for me when I hear latin words in english speech because they are pretty much regular words I use in my own language or something very close.

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