Submitted by Ok_Copy5217 t3_z1b9d9 in space
playa-del-j t1_ixa9wal wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in From Apollo to Artemis: 50 years on, is it time to go back to the moon? | Space by Ok_Copy5217
I don’t understand this mindset. NASA doesn’t take bags of money and launch them into space. The money is spent here on earth on things like R&D and paying salaries to highly skilled engineers and technicians. There’s a ton of NASA developed technologies that are spun off and used to make life better. Ask anyone that has had their life saved by getting an MRI. That’s technology NASA drastically advanced in the 60’s.
simcoder t1_ixaaipy wrote
Let's assume this moon colony actually happens. By the end of the century, decent chance that parts or all of the Cape could be underwater. Are we really going to need a moon colony at that point?
But the reality is that 99.9% chance that a moon colony never materializes and all we're left with is a big old giant heavy lift rocket for whomever to use for whatever purpose.
playa-del-j t1_ixadieo wrote
I’m not going to spend a lot of time responding becauseI think you’re determined to wallow in doom and gloom. However, it’s been estimated that there has been an ROI of $7 to $1 from the Apollo program. That’s significant. That program produced, or made better, technologies like better fire fighting equipment, water filtration, heart and health monitoring, more efficient solar panels, better treatments for dialysis patients. Not to mention the billions NASA spends on earth sciences each year. The Saturn V isn’t around any longer, but we still have all the technologies that spun out of the Apollo program.
simcoder t1_ixadp7m wrote
Reality seems to be wallowing in doom and gloom. I get it if it's too much to face directly.
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixae5r7 wrote
>Reality seems to be wallowing in doom and gloom.
If you view everything through social/news media and a lens of cynicism, yes.
Just because a view of the world sucks doesn't mean that view of the world is true.
> I get it if it's too much to face directly.
"You're too afraid to acknowledge how sad and horrible reality is, unlike me, who's an mature adult because I understand how much everything sucks and is hopeless."
Not what you actually said word-for-word, but essentially the same message you're trying to get across.
Believe it or not, people aren't naive children for believing in things you don't.
simcoder t1_ixaeno5 wrote
I don't know that it's really all that useful for the average Joe to spend a lot of time pondering all the doom and gloom. So I get the desire to ignore it or focus on other things.
But it is the reality.
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixafjw3 wrote
>I don't know that it's really all that useful for the average Joe to spend a lot of time pondering all the doom and gloom. So I get the desire to ignore it or focus on other things.
So, in other words, you're above the "average joe". You're enlightened. Unlike all those stupid optimists, you understand that the world is actually a shitty place, that we're all inevitably doomed due to, say, climate change, and that you're smarter than all the stupid, childish sheeple, because you're a complete cynic, just like a wise, mature adult. Reality is awful and horrible, and you're the only one smart enough to realize that. Everyone who doesn't believe in what you do just needs to grow up and face the harsh, cruel truth: the world sucks.
Have you considered you might just be depressed and trying to rationalize that? Objectively speaking, things don't really suck as much as you apparently think they do.
>But it is the reality.
"It's cynical! Therefore, it's true!"
simcoder t1_ixai3io wrote
How many people are starving to death right at this very moment? Is that number projected to increase or decrease?
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixaifig wrote
You aren't responding to anything I'm saying.
I think this conversation is over.
simcoder t1_ixaixkx wrote
So you don't want to talk about starving people being relevant to an underlying state of doom and gloom?
Not surprising.
tms102 t1_ixcil6c wrote
How many people are being cured or helped with diseases and or disabilities that couldn't have been helped 50 years ago?
Icy-Conclusion-3500 t1_ixcqwkj wrote
The nasa budget isn’t where I’d get money to fix that
tms102 t1_ixcio63 wrote
Is the glass half full or half empty in reality?
[deleted] t1_ixba60z wrote
[deleted]
simcoder t1_ixbalfv wrote
End what?
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixacp69 wrote
>By the end of the century, decent chance that parts or all of the Cape could be underwater.
Why does this make a moonbase a bad idea?
People spend money on, say, improving education, or developing infrastructure. But there are other problems that could also be solved with that money. Does that mean we shouldn't spend money on improving education or developing infrastructure?
>Are we really going to need a moon colony at that point?
A moon colony is useful at any point.
>But the reality is that 99.9% chance that a moon colony never materializes
How do you know that?
>and all we're left with is a big old giant heavy lift rocket for whomever to use for whatever purpose.
You say that like it's somehow a bad thing.
simcoder t1_ixad6b8 wrote
Because once mass migrations start, we're going to have to pull back on any grand space colony fantasies.
And the idea that the govt is going to actually foot the bill for a space colony seems kind of ludicrous. We can barely maintain the funding for ISS lol.
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixadmvc wrote
>Because once mass migrations start, we're going to have to pull back on any grand space colony fantasies.
Why?
>And the idea that the govt is going to actually foot the bill for a space colony seems kind of ludicrous.
Who says it'll all be the government?
There are sources of funding outside of government spending, you know.
>We can barely maintain the funding for ISS lol.
[citation needed]
Oh, and you're still not addressing why you believe there's a "99.9% chance that a moon colony never materializes" and why a "giant heavy lift rocket" is a bad thing.
You apparently think the things you're saying should be self-evident. They're not. Please explain why you think they are.
simcoder t1_ixaeb7v wrote
Why wouldn't mass internal migration lead to pullbacks in pretty much all discretionary spending? Are you living in Elon's fantasy land?
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixaeuwf wrote
>Why wouldn't mass internal migration lead to pullbacks in pretty much all discretionary spending?
Well, for starters, it's probably not going to be internal migration, because a whole bunch of people living around the equator are going to try to flee north or south. There'll be an actual refugee crisis at the US-Mexico border because of it.
But, that aside, why do you think that precludes spending on a moonbase?
>Are you living in Elon's fantasy land?
"anyone I'm against is living in Elon's fantasy land"
​
You still haven't explained why you believe:
- "we" can barely maintain the funding for the ISS (whoever "we" is)
- there's a "99.9% chance that a moon colony never materializes"
- why a "giant heavy lift rocket" is a bad thing
Like, do you actually believe any of what you're saying? You don't seem to be able to explain why you actually believe these things. To me, it appears you're assuming the things you're saying are so clearly true that anyone who believes otherwise is mentally deficient, which your other comments reflect.
simcoder t1_ixaf41i wrote
So when Florida goes underwater and we can't just lock out all the refugees at the border, all the Floridians are going to go where?
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixaftlg wrote
>So when Florida goes underwater and we can't just lock out all the refugees at the border, all the Floridians are going to go where?
Which has what do do with a moonbase?
Regardless, I'm not making an assertation about what the future of climate change-induced migration will look like. I'm asking what that has to do with a moonbase.
Besides, you still haven't explained why you believe:
- "we" can barely maintain the funding for the ISS (whoever "we" is)
- there's a "99.9% chance that a moon colony never materializes"
- why a "giant heavy lift rocket" is a bad thing
Why do you believe these things? I've explained why I believe what I believe. Why can't you explain what you believe?
simcoder t1_ixai0po wrote
Didn't you try to say that it wouldn't be internal migration for some reason? I was just explaining that to you.
4thDevilsAdvocate t1_ixaidk3 wrote
If you want to discuss migration, do it elsewhere. This isn't about that.
simcoder t1_ixaizvc wrote
I was trying to explain to you how you were wrong.
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