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Analyst7 t1_ir0gv1m wrote

When a society ceases moving forward, with goals and aspirations it sinks into decline. Either you move forward or backward. Space exploration is the next frontier.

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House13Games t1_ir0k2y6 wrote

Is it forwards though? Its essentially a very expensive sink into another gravity well for nothing but PR and glory. Without an immediate economic return you get a repeat of the 60s moon landing... very dramatic, very exciting, very expensive, and very quickly abandoned for a very long time.

We'd get a lot further with manned exploration if the same costs were spent on some asteroid mining to return chunks of ice to low earth orbit. That would work as supplies and fuel for the next wave of exploration. It would pave the way for a lot of new technology like in-space material processing, telerobotic and AI controlled mining machines, and cuts costs for long-term zero-g presence ($25000 for ever kilo of water ice you get), and r&d for deep space power sources. Mars gives you ... not so much. You might do some in-situ mining and resource processing, but its expensive to return that to earth to help with earth orbit construction of new missions.

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svarogteuse t1_ir0vzbz wrote

Columbus traveling to the America's was an expensive sink also. You cant judge the results of exploration and expansion before its happened. You have no idea what might come out of pushing to Mars.

> but its expensive to return that to earth

Who said anything about coming back? Colonization is gong to stay. Elon doesn't care about Earth orbit construction. He wants to live on Mars.

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House13Games t1_ir4c9k7 wrote

Funny you mention Columbus... his explicit mission was to uncover a land route to Asia, to improve future trading, and the return of gold and wealth.

It was not to put a flag on the Americas or live there. None of that justifies the cost of the expedition.

Remind me again how a one-way ticket to a dead end destination helps with manned solar system exploration?

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svarogteuse t1_ir577e5 wrote

His explicit mission was a failure. Instead they discovered something beyond their wildest dreams that turned Spain into a world super power. The reasoning for going doesn't matter, its what you discover after you are there and how you make use of it that matters.

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House13Games t1_ir6pkz2 wrote

Only the discovery of life on Mars would make it worth going there. Otherwise its a waste.

ps, Columbus was returned in chains to spain as a failure. He died disappointed that he did not find the trade route to Asia.

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svarogteuse t1_ir6pt75 wrote

We need to invest money and go there to discover any life there might be there. Probes aren't going to cut it. If there is life its tenuous and holding on in sheltered locations not on the wide open flat plains our probes land on.

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MrGraveyards t1_ir0t3fa wrote

The thing is ELON has a dream of a Mars base. It is NOT the goal of SpaceX itself. The goal of SpaceX is to provide transport, build a vehicle that can enable a Mars colony, or a space colony, or a Titan colony, or whatever you pretty much want to do in this solar system.

Maybe they'll simply decide once they have that Starship thing worked out completely that we don't need to make humans 'multiplanetary', we need to move humans to space, where we can easily use the abundant materials to build stuff. I wouldn't count too much on that Mars colony, doesn't mean they're not doing something useful.

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House13Games t1_ir4cm45 wrote

Ok, I'll concede that they are pushing technology forward regardless of where it ends up. But my greatest fear is that the insane cost of a Mars base, and no actual tangible financial benefit, is just a re-run of the 60s moon race and will actually turn off the major backers and sources of money from further missions. It would be a shame to let Elons dream derail space exploration for another 60 or more years, just cos he wants to. At least government-financed missions were influenced by public support, whereas Elon essentially can do what he wants with all the money he got from everyone, with no accountability.

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