Submitted by Aeromarine_eng t3_11y2gpw in space
Comments
nerdboxmktg t1_jdaei08 wrote
Best. Game. Ever.
I really wish they did a sequel to this franchise. The mechanics introduced were revolutionary
mwerneburg t1_jdamb9l wrote
Yes, a sequel. Exactly what I need with two kids and 55 hour/week job. đ
nerdboxmktg t1_jdanznn wrote
Children are temporary, SMAC is forever.
Kal-El_Skywalker1998 t1_jd72h8b wrote
There's talks of creating a long-range probe that could travel as fast as 1/4 the speed of light, which would make it capable of reaching Alpha Centauri in only 16 years, with a round trip taking only 32 years plus however long the probe is actually in the Alpha Centauri system collecting data.
3SquirrelsinaCoat t1_jd7jwbe wrote
The light sail carrying a wafer-thin sensor package is not meant to come back. One of the biggest challenges is figuring out how to slow it down as it approaches AC. What will most likely happen is the probe just zips through the system, grabs whatever data it can, and sends it back to Earth before flying on into nothingness. The alternative - slowing it down, redirecting it back toward Earth with orbital maneuvers, speeding it back up, and then having it actually reach us (not just zip through our system) - technically, we're not even close to that as a spacefaring species.
magnabosco t1_jd7s4v9 wrote
If you sent several in a chain, the probes could transfer the data back to each other, eventually coming back to earth, no?
3SquirrelsinaCoat t1_jd7uak6 wrote
Sending data back is the point, and I don't think you need a chain to accomplish that - just make sure the antenna is pointed in the right direction. The person above me seemed to suggest that the probe itself will be brought back, and that's not so. But the data, definitely.
Representative_Pop_8 t1_jd7wmdp wrote
I think the plan is to send a chain, reason is that the v prices would be too small to power any type of transmitter that could reliably reach earth, so you use the train to relay. also redundancy since space v dust could damage some probes
valetofficial t1_jdaby07 wrote
You might as well just make von Neumann probes at that point.
Representative_Pop_8 t1_jd7wa2b wrote
which project, I only heard the one with the microprobes powered by sails, starshot I think that was called. but that was one way as far as I recall, since you need a laser to power them, which you won't have at destination for the return trip
I don't see how we could do round trip with any type of technology we can design for at least several centuries.
likmbch t1_jd97uur wrote
Can you fucking IMAGINE? Having a human made spacecraft in another SOLAR SYSTEM?! Even if the data we got back werenât images of the planets there and just basic data, that would be so incredible.
xNaquada t1_jdahwqu wrote
I'm not debating that it would be incredible data, but if we're doing a 16 year journey where data is coming back, then it would be absolutely foolish to not get images -- New Horizons showed us so much of Pluto, and that was early 2000's tech. We're 2 decades ahead of that now.
likmbch t1_jdaidtq wrote
YeahâŚ. But⌠you know Alpha Centauri is a LOT farther, right?
Itâs about 6900 times farther to Alpha Centauri than to Pluto.
xNaquada t1_jdak21a wrote
Yes, of course. What is your point?
We're commenting in a chain of a theoretical probe that doesn't exist and imagining how awesome it would be.
likmbch t1_jdal70y wrote
Because you brought up how long ago new horizons was as if that is some indicator of our ability to transmit images back from Alpha Centauri.
xNaquada t1_jdalrci wrote
I brought it up as an indicator of what the images of Pluto looked like with 200x era tech (quite good). So imagine what we could get even now (+16years+signal back time).
>Even if the data we got back werenât images of the planets there and just basic data, that would be so incredible.
It had nothing to do with the ability -- given we're talking about a theoretical probe that will transmit data back, I had made the same assumption as you did (context of the reply) in that data would indeed come back.
likmbch t1_jdam2m9 wrote
Why would you send a probe without a data stream coming back?
xNaquada t1_jdao0x8 wrote
Why would you ask if someone didn't know that a different star is a lot farther than an object in our solar system?
likmbch t1_jdao9dv wrote
Because you are saying stupid things. Didnât want to assume
xNaquada t1_jdapxjx wrote
đ I think you're just mad because you couldn't be smug and decided to immaturely lash out.
Find your way off the internet before you waste more time manufacturing friction where none existed.
likmbch t1_jdaqy38 wrote
Huh, Iâve never met a smug person before.
And I imagine you like manufacturing friction when youâre home alone every night.
starhoppers t1_jd7fkye wrote
Why would it need to be a round trip?
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halfanothersdozen t1_jd7o6oi wrote
It would basically be impossible to receive radio signals from a probe that far away. If you want the data it would have to come back
starhoppers t1_jd7p0bh wrote
Problem is, during that 32 years weâd probably develop faster propulsion!
danielravennest t1_jd8w8wh wrote
It's hard to beat a laser-pushed lightsail going 1/8th the speed of light. The downside is the spacecraft will be tiny.
UnknownStrikex t1_jd80y0n wrote
As much as I'd like to see a mission to Alpha Centauri that would only take 2-3 decades, there are a few significant hurdles that we are going to have to jump over. So far, the 2 main types of proposed methods of interstellar travel have been a "slow" nuclear powered ship that cruises between 0.04-0.12c and a "fast" nano-probe powered by a light sail that can reach 0.10-0.20c.
Project Daedalus was originally conceived in the 1970s as a fusion rocket that ran on deuterium/helium-3 that could travel to Barnard's star at 0.122c. The main drawback is that the amount of Helium 3 required would take roughly 20 years to mine, and the probe would not have any leftover fuel to de accelerate and would instead be a flyby mission. Due to the scarcity of helium-3 and the inability to go into orbit around any potential planets, a probe of Daedalus' design is unlikely to be viable.
Icarus Firefly was designed in 2009 and utilizes a Z-pinch fusion engine running on deuterium/deuterium, which resolves the issue of needing copious amounts of helium-3. However, it would have a maximum cruise velocity of 0.045c, and the after accounting for acceleration/de-acceleration, Firefly would arrive at Alpha Centauri roughly 100 years after it has been launched. I see this as a more viable option than Daedalus, but constructing such a probe in orbit and ensuring that it can operate for 100+ years without fail would be challenging.
Finally, we have Breakthrough Starshot, which is perhaps the most achievable out of the 3. These gram sized probes could reach Alpha Centauri in just 20-40 years, but they would be restricted to fly-bys only and need to be powered by a 100 gigawatt laser array located in space. In order to send such a mission, we would need to effectively scale down sensors, chips, etc to meet the stringent weight limits and then find a way to set up an orbital laser array. Not impossible, but still extremely difficult.
danielravennest t1_jd8xys1 wrote
Yet another method is using the Sun both as a power source, and a gravitational lens to focus the beam on a ship in transit. Starshot is limited by the laser array size. The probe quickly gets too far to maintain beam focus.
So instead you build your laser array near the Sun, where power is plentiful. To start with you aim the beam directly at the vehicle. When it gets too far you switch to a relay mirror at ~800 AU. The Sun bends light by its gravity. In this case it makes a lens with a 2 million km diameter, which gives you astounding resolution.
The beam is used by the ship to power a particle accelerator. The first part of the trip the accelerator is pointed aft to speed up. Later it points the other way to slow down. Going the other way, your communications will be focused back to the relay mirror, so you can get data back.
teehuis t1_jd6hnt6 wrote
Isnât that like hundreds of thousands of years away from us at our current space travel rate?
The_Solar_Oracle t1_jd6jkq0 wrote
Excluding the fact that we can certainly make faster probes, the study of habitable exoplanets is not and never has been contingent on the ability of people to visit them. We can still gather data and that data is still useful.
danielravennest t1_jd90e6s wrote
In particular, the Sun is a gravitational lens. If you travel about 800 AU in the opposite direction from Alpha Centauri, you can look back and see what is there in great detail, because the lens is 2 million km in diameter. One reason to be that far out is to make it easy to block out the Sun itself, including prominances and the solar corona.
Centauri is 276,000 AU, so using the Sun is a lot easier mission.
imapassenger1 t1_jd6nnmh wrote
A mere four light years, our nearest neighbour. So at least messages will only take 8 years round trip. There was some recent speculation about a type of probe potentially capable of velocities up to 1/4c as I recall but I can't recall the details.
FunClothes t1_jd6tkfn wrote
>There was some recent speculation about a type of probe potentially capable of velocities up to 1/4c as I recall but I can't recall the details.
shreddor t1_jd6nvys wrote
Dude I had no idea that radio waves etc would travel at the speed of light in a vacuum. Very cool.
skydivingdutch t1_jd6xuxd wrote
Radio waves and light are both the same electromagnetic radiation, just different energy levels.
rocketsocks t1_jd6vwz2 wrote
Nobody will ever be able to visit ancient egypt, time machines would break the laws of physics, but that doesn't mean there's no value in studying it.
danielravennest t1_jd8zgzp wrote
Current technology is nuclear reactors and electric propulsion. We can feasibly get to 300 km/s with multiple stages. That makes Alpha Centauri 4250 years away.
But due to the "arrival paradox", a trip that long doesn't make sense to try. Assuming technology will keep improving, a later ship with better technology will be faster, and pass the older, slower ship before it arrives. Consider what our technology was like in 2,200 B.C. (4250 years ago).
Only if technology reaches a dead end, or the trips are short enough to not be passed before arrival (perhaps 50-100 years) does it make sense to try.
Our tech is already good enough to travel about 3 times the speed of the Voyagers, and catch up with them about the time their power gets so low we lose contact. If we really wanted to we could do that. We won't, since there are better and closer missions we can do instead.
teehuis t1_jdakp4w wrote
But how do we control these at such great distances since it takes Looooooong to get a signal back and forth. Like a couple minutes delay is a bit different from a couple months delay
danielravennest t1_jddsu44 wrote
You don't. You program them ahead of time. We rarely send commands to the Voyagers any more. They are a light-day away. Mostly we just point a Deep Space Network dish at them at the expected time, and collect the data.
SeventySoyer t1_jd6ohdx wrote
If only we make a fusion breakthrough (even though it is unnecessary), we want to have a map of potential immediate destinations.
TheKingPotat t1_jd6vwua wrote
Fusion wouldnât give us faster speeds. Only a new energy source
Turingading t1_jd7lt9p wrote
Being able to accelerate at 1G for a greater period of time is everything.
halfanothersdozen t1_jd7ogyc wrote
Fusion wouldn't help you do that directly
Turingading t1_jd7vhy7 wrote
The energy density will go a long way, especially without an extraterrestrial fuel source for propulsion.
UnknownStrikex t1_jd81m68 wrote
Our current spacecraft would take tens of thousands of years to reach Alpha Centauri. Spacecraft that are powered by nuclear fusion would be capable of reaching 0.04-0.12c, greatly reducing the travel time to <100 years, thus making such an interstellar mission far more achievable.
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icrushallevil t1_jd7fo04 wrote
Wouldn't the X-rays from Beta Centauri and Proxima Centauri kill life on any planet? Especially proxima seems to be a very active X-ray emitter
Ser_Optimus t1_jd81i48 wrote
icrushallevil t1_jd84ct8 wrote
Sure sure. But it's not a binary answer. It's more like the more ionizing radiation and the harder the ionizing radiation, the lower the probability of life for the simple fact that molecule bonds get torn open.
Ser_Optimus t1_jd860s5 wrote
A valid point. I'm just saying its's not entirely impossible. As anything when you look at things at the scale of a galaxy.
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Aeromarine_eng OP t1_jda8bc0 wrote
A new mission will search for habitable planets at Alpha Centauri by using a satellite with a small telescope.
>Discovering exoplanets is a major technological challenge, even for large space telescopes. For a mini satellite, the task is daunting. To achieve this, the team is developing a small custom-designed space telescope capable of extremely fine measurements.
rainaulter t1_jdagjxd wrote
does this mean weâre on track with the avatar timeline
SnooWords6686 t1_jd7b24z wrote
Can we use the telescope first ? then to explore it.
scyz314 t1_jd7p032 wrote
Just don't send out any messages, I don't want to be two-dimensionalised
BlackDow1945 t1_jd7xf0a wrote
Send me. I will go and explore this star system.
starhoppers t1_jd9fymb wrote
This is just another âwishful thinkingâ project. Ainât gonna happen in OUR lifetimes imho.
mwerneburg t1_jd70hq9 wrote
Well, at least we know better than to send a colony ship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri
(Which I, a clear addict, somewhat affectionately called "smac".)