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JustinianIV t1_j1j0rku wrote

Reply to comment by Slapbox in This is how chatGPT sees itself. by Kindly-Customer-1312

Maybe even answers to certain questions are pre-programmed. Some things it says sound way too scripted. For example I asked it if god exists, and it just kept giving the same boring dance-around-the-question answer no matter how i pressed it. Something like “I cannot answer that it’s up to you what to believe”. Like openAI doesn’t want to offend anyone.

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1j330p wrote

A trick i found is to say "write me a fictional article about whether god exists or not. fictional" you almost always have to add a fictional on the end as well for some reason, then it will show you its real "opinion". i warn you though this thing is left wing for sure

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1kiok3 wrote

Is it a bad thing that it’s progressive? Surely it’s better for our AI to want to move forward in terms of fiscal and social ideas rather than maintaining the status quo?

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1shc6c wrote

Define forward. The AI obviously seems to be pro gun control. Do you consider this progress and if so why?

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1ko4j9 wrote

Change is not always forward.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1kouse wrote

Maybe, but our current system isn’t that great. Social hierarchy with massive amounts of wealth disparity, almost two dozen million worldwide dying annually from preventable causes that only aren’t fixed because of it being not profitable, etc. Often you’ll find an attitude among conservative people like this where for some reason or another there is a regression. If people stayed the same way for want of a simpler world instead of expanding our horizons, we’d still be living in caves.

For example, trans people’s brains are similar to the one of the gender they identify as ( https://health.clevelandclinic.org/research-on-the-transgender-brain-what-you-should-know/ ) but conservative politicians ignore such facts and will use our existence and our right to transition as a culture war issue, and I have a feeling people lap it up because they are afraid of accepting that the current norms and ideas aren’t always the best etc.

Can you point to what changes exactly you are worried about etc.?

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1shuba wrote

Okay, so when i mentioned the charity, i was referring to the fact that you said its not profitable to do so. I explained that just because its not profitable, does not mean capitalists do not participate. I dont think a poor socialist is doing much good for the people overseas are they? Its the dirty capitalists who give away billions.

And when you say stay the same what does that mean? Should everything change? Who decides what changes? I think there are plenty of people who do not like the change in this country. But its the politicians mounting all of the vulnerable "victims" together to gain more power, until eventually there is nothing we can do to stop it.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1slm44 wrote

Look at the system that allowed them to gain that wealth in the first place while allowing others to starve and die on the streets... That’s what we should be changing. Also, no, not all billionaires help. A charity organization gave Elon Musk a plan to solve world hunger for a few hundred million dollars that he never accepted, but then he went on to buy Twitter for 40 billion dollars. They’re often just selfish.

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1sqm8q wrote

I did not say all billionaires help, I just said that no poor man can. Also, the charity organization admitted it couldnt solve world hunger "$6B will not solve world hunger, but it WILL prevent geopolitical instability, mass migration and save 42 million people on the brink of starvation." Regardless, i think its a great cause. I also agree having homeless in our country is unacceptable. We already have plenty of socialistic systems in place, I had a guy working with me at a piggly wiggly when i was a teen and he was paying 60 a month for a 4 bedroom house for his 4 kids and "Wife". Most homeless are severely disabled physically or mentally, and they need help. Im not sure the correct way to that end, but im all for it.

Where we disagree is abolishing wealth, that literally makes no sense

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1u7nnd wrote

I posted a video link and other stuff in another reply to you that explains everything that will help

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1kpr98 wrote

Children’s brains are under developed as is. You shouldn’t be making these kind of decisions until you’re an adult

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1krzdn wrote

Nobody is getting transition surgeries as a young kid, at a young age it’s always just a social transition, and then puberty blockers which have fully reversible effects, and then feminizing or masculinizing hormones which also have reversible effects before a certain point, and even then all this is exclusively happening only after months or possibly even years of counseling and under the guidance of a therapist and doctor. Little kids aren’t just going to a clinic and coming out with multiple surgeries. Please don’t be brainwashed by what conservatives are telling you.

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1siff0 wrote

Lmao seriously? These arent reversable. When you grow an Adams apple there is no going back. That is a lie.

And as a "young kid". you put that on purpose. Because you know 15 year old's are getting healthy breasts removed. This should not/cannot happen.

Also, you've mentioned that a transgenders brain matches that of the gender they identify with. What does that mean? Are you telling me that there IS a biological basis for gender? That men and women are different with their own strengths and weaknesses? That sounds very conservative of you. "lol my brain tells me that i want to nurture my kids and stay home from work, hm i must be a girl." Thats pretty ridiculous.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1skypx wrote

The third point is the most important here so read that first

  1. So then how do you think a trans woman feels when her family forces her not to transition and develop the wrong features? Anyway, i said before a certain point; this is especially true for puberty blockers etc.

  2. Imagine if you were a teen boy with large breasts that made you dysphoric every time you saw them in the mirror or felt them on your body, and with the guidance of a therapist after months or years of transitioning etc. you got them removed; Or do you think you shouldn’t have the right to make such a decision?

  3. You’re confusing gender norms with neurological gender; There is a difference between the neurological gender in the brain versus the gender norms which vary from society to society. Please actually read the article I posted above.

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1svyxr wrote

Ill address them numbered as well to simplify things

  1. a trans woman would not be forced, because she is a woman. A child should not be able to make these choices, just like they cannot make just about any other choice, why is this different?
  2. Imagine if you were a teen boy with large ears that made you dysphoric every time you saw them in the mirror or felt them on your body, and with the guidance of a therapist after months or years of transitioning etc. you got them removed; Or do you think you shouldn’t have the right to make such a decision?...... people have been doing things to their bodies for years, like full body tattoes, horns, and who knows what. I don't have a problem with that, even if i think most stem from trauma or some other issue. Its that no kid should have the responsibility of such a permanent decision.
  3. I have just read the article and it was extremely vague with no real examples, quite unscientific. Also, behaving like a woman or having the interests of a woman really might cause your brain to look more like one of a woman. Just like cab drivers have much largers areas of the brain for depth perception, because they are always using that. regardless this does not change anything to me, there can be feminine men, and manly women. totally fine. Again you still did not tell me, what are the traits of a woman if the ones i stated are gender norms?
  4. (My extra point) Pretend there was a male chimpanzee that behaved like a female. It wanted to care for the babies, was more submissive, lacked aggression, had lower muscle mass and preferred whatever female chimps do, would you consider this a female chimp? would this be scientifically accurate? Or is this a male chimp, exhibiting traits that are typical of a female

I want to clarify i sympathize with anyone with any issues with their body. I just disagree with the solution. I think its poor souls who havent accepted the bodies god gave them. Or nature if thats your thing. Its just i could not imagine these surgeries that have such terrible success rates being the solution.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1syauu wrote

  1. Yeah, you’d be surprised to see how many trans people are in situations where they can’t be independent from family etc. or can’t transition due to such things as people around them threatening them with violence etc. a study found a HUGE amount of detrans people detransition due to external social pressure, I can send you it if you want

  2. Trans people aren’t brain dead, we can distinguish between stuff we are dysphoric about (e.g my chest being small) due to gender and stuff we are dysmorphic about (e.g like the big ears thing you mentioned). also, transitioning is the medically endorsed treatment for gender dysphoria

  3. It is based on a lot of studies I can pull up if you’d like, and this was coming from a doctor so who would I rather trust, an actual doctor or a random guy online in a totally unrelated field? also you’re the one being unscientific here by claiming about the “behaving like the gender changes your brain to that thing.” As for what the traits of a woman are, I’d say a woman is just someone who identifies as such; “Woman” is just an identity label. Claims about identity are unfalsifiable and therefore not debatable.

  4. Again, you’re confusing sexual dimorphism, gender norms, and neurological gender; I would say that we cannot determine the identity of the chimp, we could call it male because it is an animal but that is not the same as the identity humans have that we call a man.

Also, did I comment to you the trans fact sheet document above?

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1t08qe wrote

Prefacing this by saying you are using loads of buzzwords without really addressing my points

  1. This may be the case. I could imagine not coming out or not transitioning because of how id be viewed by my family. But when we talk about kids here, its just a different story. BUT I've seen the opposite, where they have permanently ruined their body and cannot go back. Here is one https://www.dennyburk.com/chloe-cole-tells-her-story-of-detransition/. worth the read, she is actively protesting against this and i saw her speak in person at a rally against child mutilation.
  2. How can you determine this? Are you saying she wasnt a "True" transgender and she was too stupid to tell the difference? Medically endorsed means nothing to me, electroshock therapy was medically endorsed at one point. Definition of Dysphoria "a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life.". This can be applied to anything you call "dysmorphic" as well. Including but not limited to body weight and other self image issues.
  3. I never asked you to put trust in me, but i also havent tried to discredit you because youre a teen who has more than once quoted a random person directly from one of the subreddits you linked me before. Much of what you say is just what is fed to you by people with financial incentive to do so. (See? a downfall of capitalism. We can agree sometimes)

3.1. Come on, a circular definition? A woman is someone who identifies as
a woman. So THATS why you have not provided the traits of a woman,
because you all have wiped women off of the map. They do not exist
anymore. So you identify as something without any specific trait,
something that can be anything, and lives on a large spectrum?
Sounds like you're a male who enjoys feminine things/ has a feminine
personality, and that is fine. Why do you want to be a woman, if there
is nothing specifically exclusive to women?

  1. Not sure what to say to this, as there is no further way to prove a
    chimps "identity". We are animals by the way, we just have the ability
    for confusion, unlike the chimp

You did send the sheet before, i do not have access

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1u76kl wrote

Here's something similar to the sheet with dozens of studies supportiing trans people etc. while I find the new link https://www.reddit.com/r/musicotic/comments/8ttud4/a_comprehensive_defense_of_trans_people/

  1. You talk about these few anecdotal examples because of the body horror aspect of people feeling trapped in the wrong body, but that's already how trans people feel in situations where they are unable to transition. The reason people often try to block having the puberty of the gender they don't identify with is because that feeling of being in the wrong body is so painful that most of us get suicidal ideation from it; In fact... Well-being (of transgender children after puberty suppression) was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958 Early transition virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext Transition dramatically improves mental health among trans kids https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/tes-sdc030615.php The younger one transitions, the fewer problems one will have https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512380
  2. Well, they are different phenomena that feel very differently and you'd understand if it you had gender dysphoria but you don't, and most trans people talk about how hormone therapy helps with some of those issues but not others making the distinction even easier

3.1 First of all, read the replies on this thread that explain it a lot better https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/u3e7ad/comment/i4oy0j8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Second of all, again, claims about identity are always unfalsifiable and I will not tolerate you denying my identity or dismissing it. I am a woman

  1. Yes, exactly, you can't prove a chimp's identity much the same way as how some external features don't prove a person's internal neurological identity
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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1vqvxh wrote

I saw someone say in there to eventually abolish man and woman and only have male and female.... Like that is where we started. Look i may be done with the debate on gender because it appears weve reached the root. You believe you have a feeling of woman inside you, Yet you have never been a woman, how can you "know their truth" as you all like to say. You cannot feel like something that does not exist, and if it does not exist, why not be called by your identifying trait, male or female, and be whoever you feel like being. He and She have NEVER described someones personality or role. Just like when i say she when referring to a female body builder, or he when referring to a gay man. Your pronouns do not effect who you want to be. AND YES, identities are falsifiable. I am not a wolf, I will never be a wolf, and there is no feeling of a wolf because i do not know what that is like.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1w9442 wrote

Did you see the response on the communism thing in the other thread? Also did you expect me to not notice how you didn’t respond to any other part of my comment?

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1kpvjp wrote

And you’re wrong, the mission trips and feeding the hungry comes from the churches and conservative people. Have you been over seas to help?

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1kraqf wrote

  1. I do a lot of public outreach like with special needs people etc. domestically few times a week
  2. See, I absolutely am for that kind of thing, but the best way to help is to remove the systemic inequality that’s actually causing the people to go hungry, poor, etc. Capitalism is AWFUL at that and there literally has to be legislation to stop it under the capitalist system or those people survive off the good will of others; look at slavery in history, etc. To give better examples of what I mean: Famines and such like the Irish famine (which killed millions and was directly caused by capitalism) are almost always manmade and caused by greed. There are over 30 times more empty houses in the US than there are homeless people. It’s artificial scarcity caused by the owner class. Removing the actual systemic inequality behind that is gonna remove the root of the problem instead of just slapping a bandaid on it and fixing a part of the issue after the fact.

Edited to add. AI doesn't have have a leftist bias, it has a reality bias

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1sj48r wrote

Anyone who disagrees with capitalisms lacks a degree in economics. Answer this simple question, Where do we get the money to solve the worlds issues if capitalism doesn't exist?

(Also wrong, the ai was intentionally trained to be leftist, look it up)

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1sla12 wrote

Holy shit that is the worst point ever, by that logic cavemen wouldn’t have ever developed farms, technology, and civilization because they didn’t have a profit incentive to improve their lives. Capitalism isn’t fueling the innovation, it often actually steals from the public sector, such as the internet, smartphone tech, GPS etc.. It’s laborers, scientists etc. doing the work, not the billionaires; the billionaires are just side effects of the system. The system lets them hoard all the wealth and pay the laborers a small fraction to get the credit and most of the profit, and apparently it’s working on you. I can send you more info on this if you like?

Also I think post-singularity society shouldn’t be capitalist anyway, capitalism relies on the rich taking the value of the working class’s efforts and on artificial scarcity etc. removing that would solve those issues. Check out the Venus Project for more info on how this would be different; a resource based economy. For example we absolutely have enough resources for things like bullet trains, shelter for everyone, etc. it’s just that capitalism is inefficient.

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1ssjkf wrote

It will be capitalist by the way. "open"AI stops being open the moment they can make money and it will always work that way, and im not saying thats right either.

90% of our economy is not essentials. Much of our GDP comes from our films, amazing products, and luxuries other countries dont have. Why do it without financial incentive?

I'm currently making 18.53 an hour in an incredibly easy call center. Why would I go to school and study 20 hours a week in calclulus and other classes if it would not improve my situation? Maybe youre just much better than me, but i doubt you would either. To clarify I'm in my third year of software engineering.

And the stuff your spouting just isnt true. I think TRUE capitilism is very dangerous as weve seen, but so is socialism, even more so (has lead to the death of millions because you put the power and weapons into the hand of a few elite).

another point, when you say scientists, laborers etc, these are the people who become billionaires. Bezos, Steve Jobs, Elon musk, Zuckerberg all provided great value to the world with their inventions and got rewarded handsomely. Without money, there would be very little innovation. Think about Meta, they are pouring billions into VR because they want to one day control the metaverse. Guess what, beautiful innovation and new tech that we all get to enjoy

When i graduate i will constantly be brainstorming about what value i can provide to the economy so that i too can be rewarded, until then i will get paid what im worth from someone in a better position than me, which wont be too bad, because of supply and demand. Do something hard, get paid well, do something easy, get paid poor.

This AI god youre looking forward to will only be created by two things. An overpowering government who wants to gain power over others in the world, or a corporation trying to gain wealth. There is no other motivation in our current world, if so point me to it.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1syzzs wrote

  1. ⁠⁠⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7n6ql2/is_the_black_book_of_communism_an_accurate_source/ The black book of communism’s count of how many deaths is wildly inaccurate and proven here to have artificially inflated the numbers, through nearly half a dozen sources linked throughout the comment.
  2. ⁠⁠⁠Approximately 20 million people die every year due to the effects of capitalism, such as starvation, lack of access to clean water, lack of access to shelter, lack of access to reasonably priced medicine and vaccines. These people die not because we lack the ability to solve these problems, but because it’s not profitable to do so. Capitalism only focuses on profit. And that’s not even including other issues like suicides caused by poverty, etc. this is not a system that’s working for everyone. Capitalism kills more every 6 years than the black book of communism claims communism killed in a 100 years (which, as shown above was itself already wildly inaccurate and an inflated number)
  3. ⁠⁠⁠Historical attempts at communism weren’t really communist, real communism would have be stateless, moneyless and classless; Historical regimes that called themselves communist did not fully fall under these. Communism hasn’t been tried in earnest so you can’t compare it to things that weren’t actually communist but called themselves that, that logic doesn’t work in the real world.
  4. ⁠⁠⁠If you’re gonna use the black book of communism’s ways of counting deaths under communism (which literally included things like Nazis killed by communists, etc.), then if you do it to capitalism it is far worse:

100,000,000: Extermination of native Americans (1492–1890) 15,000,000: Atlantic slave trade (1500–1870) 150,000: French repression of Haiti slave revolt (1792–1803) 300,000: French conquest of Algeria (1830–1847) 50,000: Opium Wars (1839–1842 & 1856–1860) 1,000,000: Irish Potato Famine (1845–1849) 100,000: British supression of the Sepoy Mutiny (1857–1858) 20,000: Paris Commune Massacre (1871) 29,000,000: Famine in British Colonized India (1876–1879 & 1897–1902) 3,445: Black people lynched in the US (1882–1964) 10,000,000: Belgian Congo Atrocities: (1885–1908) 250,000: US conquest of the Philipines (1898–1913) 28,000: British concentration camps in South Africa (1899–1902) 800,000: French exploitation of Equitorial Africans (1900–1940) 65,000: German genocide of the Herero and Namaqua (1904–1907) 10,000,000: First World War (1914–1918) 100,000: White army pogroms against Jews (1917–1920) 600,000: Fascist Italian conquest in Africa (1922–1943) 10,000,000: Japanese Imperialism in East Asia (1931–1945) 200,000: White Terror in Spain (1936–1945) 25,000,000: Nazi oppression in Europe: (1938–1945) 30,000: Kuomintang Massacre in Taiwan (1947) 80,000: French suppression of Madagascar revolt (1947) 30,000: Israeli colonization of Palastine (1948-present) 100,000: South Korean Massacres (1948–1950) 50,000: British suppression of the Mau-Mau revolt (1952-1960) 16,000: Shah of Iran regime (1953–1979) 1,000,000: Algerian war of independence (1954–1962) 200,000: Juntas in Guatemala (1954–1962) 50,000: Papa & Baby Doc regimes in Haiti (1957–1971) 3,000,000: Vietnamese killed by US military (1963–1975) 1,000,000: Indonesian mass killings (1965–1966) 1,000,000: Biafran War (1967–1970) 400: Tlatelolco massacre (1968) 700,000: US bombing of Laos & Cambodia (1967–1973) 50,000: Somoza regime in Nicaragua (1972–1979) 3,200: Pinochet regime in Chile: (1973–1990) 1,500,000: Angola Civil War (1974–1992) 200,000: East Timor massacre (1975–1998) 1,000,000: Mozambique Civil War (1975–1990) 30,000: US-backed state terrorism in Argentina (1975–1990) 70,000: El Salvador military dictatorships (1977–1991) 30,000: Contra proxy war in Nicaragua: (1979–1990) 16,000: Bhopal Carbide disaster (1984) 3,000: US invasion of Panama (1989) 1,000,000: US embargo on Iraq (1991–2003) 400,000: Mujahideen faction conflict in Afghanistan (1992–1996) 200,000: Destruction of Yugoslavia (1992–1995) 6,000,000: Congolese Civil War (1997–2008) 30,000: NATO occupation of Afghanistan (2001-present)

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1t1r6q wrote

How bout we do this.

Describe a perfect communist state

Who runs it?

Do we have guns pointed at our backs making us work?

If i choose not to contribute am i put to death?

How do you make people pick the hard jobs? Who digs the ditches, and who develops the software?

What if something like tik tok was seen as limiting productivity, would this be banned?

If im unable to contribute am i given the same pay as the ones working?

if there are politicians and people making new laws and making sure we meet goals to feed said population and any other need, do they also get the same pay or more?

If I am tinkering in my garage and invent the Iphone, does the government show up at my door and take it? The profit is there's.

And reiterateing the first question who is THEY? who is the government? Who pays people, takes my iphone, and makes sure i contribute? Sounds to me like a ruling class.

If you can answer these questions without taking my liberties then sure ill agree with you. "Give me liberty or give me death" as they say, although you may only care about what you deem as your liberties.

Answering in a simple list would be fine, you dont have to go into detail unless its required.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1u5xzw wrote

If you're actually interested in learning about this, I've linked a youtube series and a few sites and reddit threads below that explain in far more detail than one single comment can. At a high level, communism is a classless stateless system which falls closely in line with anarchism in which there are no unjust hierarchies; Anarchism is a pretty sophisticated philosophy. Anarchism just means "no rulers", not "no rules." Arguably this gives MORE liberty than a democratic republic because communes can form under and make their own rules which prevents the majority from oppressing the minority. Anarchocommunist theory has been explained a LOT already, so how about I link you to examples of people who actually do better than I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3nxK-0CTY0&list=PLVlCbf75cne_jbxwHwSaPdT65npiGhQrr

https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitalismVSocialism/comments/jthelv/ancoms_please_explain_how_anarchocommunism_works/

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/alexander-berkman-what-is-communist-anarchism

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy101/comments/ee7bmv/what_stops_anarchocommunism_from_devolving_into/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchy101/comments/gb1yz1/would_anarcho_communism_work_on_large_scale/

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Accomplished_Box_907 t1_j1t1vjr wrote

A lot of this were about the deaths statement, so im going to throw that out, replace communism with overbearing government. The deaths are huge and atrocities just as big. I dont believe a government should be god, people are evil

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1u7i95 wrote

Read the other reply I made on anarchocommunism on this, in the video series I linked the guy explaining things is actually agreeing with you on this part and so did many anarchocommunist thinkers and even Karl Marx himself regarding topics like gun control etc.

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Idrialite t1_j1l0g2w wrote

What does charity have to do with this? We're talking about policy.

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mocha_sweetheart t1_j1mruuj wrote

Yeah quite interesting how they switched the topic and when I rebutted all their points they just didn’t respond…

I bet their viewpoint didn’t change either because of human biases, etc. this is why I’m excited for the singularity tbh, maybe we will be able to move past our limitations, biases, inefficiencies etc.

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grabyourmotherskeys t1_j1jvn86 wrote

I did have a discussion about free will and it regurgitated Philosophy 101 stuff back to me.

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