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Neurogence OP t1_iy3dcza wrote

I guess my error is my inclination to try to apply Moore's law to every type of technology. It does seem that things progress very slowly for tech that involves physical hardware. Software is easy but progress in tech where there's physical hardware involve can be frustratingly slow.

I guess it's kinda similar to how smartphones have not changed much at all since 2007. At this point it would not even be surprising if people are still using smartphones in the 2030s. Seems it's mostly software where most of the advancement is taking place.

People like Kurzweil imagine we will have Nanobots in our brains by the 2030s to replace smartphones but that involves serious hardware that we have no idea how to create.

Our best hope for a hard takeoff is AGI.

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World_May_Wobble t1_iy3w5ts wrote

Consider commercial aviation. It has seen no gains in 40 years. In fact, it slid back with the death of Concorde. Sometimes things stagnate because there's a lack of imagination, or the economics is bad, or there just physically is no way to do the thing we envision.

Stagnation has been the norm for most of human history, and we should expect more of it with things that aren't closely linked to some kind of feed-forward loop. Smaller transistors help us make smaller transistors. Better AI can help us make better AI. Better VR ... Is just better VR.

Edit: Airliners have seen some gains in fuel efficiency, and they've obviously become more computerized but these are not the kind of exponential transformations we have become used to in computing.

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Seek_Treasure t1_iy4psqj wrote

That's not true, fuel efficiency (and range) in commercial aviation has improved a lot in past few decades.

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World_May_Wobble t1_iy4qkvi wrote

Has it? How many doublings has the range of airliners undergone in the last 40 years?

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Seek_Treasure t1_iy4rd90 wrote

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World_May_Wobble t1_iy4tufx wrote

Likewise airfare seems to have halved at least once.

It's not transformational, and we'd be disappointed if the biggest improvement in VR between now and 2050 was that it was cheaper -- but it is something.

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Seek_Treasure t1_iy4uulu wrote

Airplanes will transition to electric eventually. There's some really hard challenges to this, but the progress is being made. More immersive VR and true usable AR will come. There's some really hard challenges to solve (some, like batteries and heat are shared with aviation), but the progress is there. It's not just hardware, software also helps. For example, fast ML computer vision for eye tracking helps foveated rendering, and we're far from done here.

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bemmu t1_iy3npsx wrote

There has to be enough demand to make it good enough, and it has to be good enough for there to be enough demand.

As it gets better in each generation, there will be increased incentive and competition to make the hardware even better, in a nice virtuous cycle. As demand grows, there will be ever more VR titles for every niche, helping the growth further.

Personally I have high hopes for Quest 3 in 2023 and Quest 4 in 2025 (?) each being a big multiplier (1.5-2x?) for adoption.

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botfiddler t1_iy3l7xa wrote

VR was obviously here to stay, because of all the monitors we have. Mass output of cheap high resolution screens. Though, these screens aren't 8k or even more. Much less of a mass market, much less demand outside of VR.

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[deleted] t1_iy4hwgb wrote

Machine learning will do wonders for many industries (VR included) even before AGI coalesces.

The trend in cost of computing is clear, but it's not occurring in an isolated environment. Countries around the globe have been experiencing some pretty major issues in the past few years.

VR continues to be a "nice to have" product. It needs more investment and time dedicated to it before it can become as ubiquitous as the smartphone. This has been made a bit more difficult due to the various socioeconomic issues occurring recently. Companies like Meta can no longer allocate as many funds to VR as when they first bought Oculus.

We will bounce back. We will create better VR. It will just take some more time.

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CommunismDoesntWork t1_iy3qmoa wrote

Moore's law is all about hardware lol. But yeah, your intuition about smartphones is correct, Moore's law has slowed down.

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FiFoFree t1_iy3w98s wrote

Rapid iteration/advancement of hardware isn't quite here yet, but we do have reason to believe it's possible (cf. additive manufacturing/3D printing). We can pump out software quickly because we've removed a lot of the bottlenecks for doing so (e.g. using IDEs with keyboards and mice rather than punch cards or manually toggling switches) and made the ability to code widely available (allowing for massively collaborative software projects).

Hardware has a pipeline, and that pipeline is pretty constricted at the moment in comparison to software, but that doesn't mean it will be that way forever.

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UncertainAboutIt t1_iy6v66g wrote

> We can pump out software quickly

Cardboard is there for many years now. How easy and quick to develop Linux VR desktop for smartphones? I'm waiting for it long time, even ordinary GNU/Linux - AKAIK only one modern smartphone runs it (pine), whereas all desktops/laptops I now run Linux more or less (for less I mean Mac).

E.g. even for pine it now takes years for make e-ink reader with Linux, AFAIK they sell still for developers only.

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Netwelle t1_iy4satv wrote

It seems that dedicated chips for AR glasses are only now being developed and close to manufacturing. I believe ARM has a chip designed from scratch for this application. I believe with the big push for web3 and Metaverse that now is the time. Before this point there has not been corporate backing for the application. Now that every big company wants to push into this market, the funding is available.

I bet we see it accelerate heavily in the next 2-3yrs.

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Adventurous_Whale t1_iy4vxiw wrote

The software is also a big problem. VR game controls are still a general mess.

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Agreeable_Sun3754 t1_iy5sugw wrote

>my error is my inclination to try to apply Moore's law to every type of technology.

Nah your error is not understanding how exponentials work. Doubling every couple of years still means at the begining it takes 20-50 years to hit the inflection of the exponential curve.

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KeltisHigherPower t1_iy5d5e1 wrote

Also, I can't help but think if someone like Facebook for instance had a huge advance, that they would shelve it and keep the advances at a drip pace because that will feed sales. If they jumped right to something that skipped over all of their other research they would lose out on years of revenue just edging out others. But maybe not.

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Prayers4Wuhan t1_iy817yd wrote

  • blackberry and Nokia introduced in 1998 and 1999

That was the beginning of the cell phone movement.

  • The first iPhone wasn’t launched until 2007
  • Galaxy S was launched in 2010

That was the beginning of the smartphone movement.

But smartphones didn’t really become polished until 2017-2022

The iPhone X released in 2017 and the android pixel 4 released in 2019 appear to me to be “peak smartphone technology”

It took a full 20 years to go from a Nokia to an iPhone X.

But it only took 10 years to go from an iPhone to an iPhone X.

  • Cardboard VR was released 2014

  • Oculus rift introduced 2016 (not the dev version)

  • Oculus quest released 2019

  • valve index 2019

  • The expensive oculus 2022

Seems right on schedule honestly. Cardboard VR is the Nokia and valve index and oculus quest are the iPhone and android versions etc.

I think the sticker shock of the expensive meta vr is due to zuck price gouging the quest to try to create market dominance. VR will probably be as expensive as new iPhones.

Apple still needs to make a VR.

By 2034 VR should be fully polished for consumers.

VR gloves, walking/running and of course visual quality indistinguishable from real life.

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Same_Mirror3641 t1_iy4hzdt wrote

Yea Kurzweil is way too optimistic, the guy thought (maybe still does?) That he is gonna live forever. No man. I'm 31, I'm not even gonna live forever...Ray is like 70 already??

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s2ksuch t1_iy4pqfy wrote

Ok nostradamus, glad you can see your future so clearly

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Same_Mirror3641 t1_iy99sr1 wrote

Wait are you one of these people who think they are gonna live forever? Hate to tell ya bud, you might be disappointed one day lol

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