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KeepItASecretok t1_ixgdzx3 wrote

I never understood this almost cult like obsession with accepting death or old age for some people.

Of course we don't currently have the ability to entirely reverse aging in humans, but for the first time it is within our reach and people cling to it like it's a tradition.

"We've always died so we must always continue to die."

Or some people who think they are taking a morally righteous position by wanting to die?

Even if we can't fully be "immortal" per say, at least we can strive to make life into old age much more functional and enjoyable.

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HeinrichTheWolf_17 t1_ixgxnh1 wrote

I think those religious and mythological traditions will dissipate when aging is cured, by the time we abandon the monkey suit altogether those ways of thinking will certainly be extinct. A lot of it is just Stockholm Syndrome.

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Education-Sea t1_ixh22o2 wrote

"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living"- KM

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HeinrichTheWolf_17 t1_ixh2v7w wrote

Yeah, I think half of it is tradition and the other half is a coping mechanism, humans don’t live a long time, so they need myth, religion, spirituality and philosophy to explain their short finite lifespan. Half of the reason these spiritual traditions exist is because of the sting of death, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism all try to ease the reality of coping with permanent loss.

Nobody treats death like they treat a morning cup or coffee or the last dump they took. It’s been a an Achilles Heel in that losing people around us needs an explanation (I don’t think it does TBH). I think soon both Ageism and Deathism will be obsolete.

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div414 t1_ixhe8wu wrote

That is wishful thinking.

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HeinrichTheWolf_17 t1_ixhjlfh wrote

It’s not going to happen overnight, but it’ll lessen more and more over time.

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ThatOneGuy1294 t1_ixh5peh wrote

> Or some people who think they are taking a morally righteous position by wanting to die?

Well a non-insignificant portion of the planet's population is literally waiting for the world to end so the chosen ones get to ascend to heaven, so that's definitely a factor for a lot of people.

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Cult_of_Chad t1_ixo7bc7 wrote

The misanthropic ecofascists that think the universe would be better off without us are just as bad, and a lot more prevalent on Reddit.

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2Punx2Furious t1_ixhfhxy wrote

> cult like obsession with accepting death or old age for some people

https://hpluspedia.org/wiki/Deathism

It's basically a way to cope.

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HongoMushroomMan t1_ixipsix wrote

Its all one massive giant coping mechanism in my opinion. Some start earlier than others. I've been cursed to have spent a portion of my brain cycles on the cold hard truth that death is the end since I was 14. Ate some mushrooms at way too young of an age and something in my mind just... clicked. I remember the second it happened. I woke up, sober and just proceeded to live post-realization. That an actual cessation of existence was coming, and that its not to be spoken or talked about around normal people.

I'd imagine most average people only really start getting into that internal realization in their 50s/60s/70s when they feel their body literally beginning that cycle of disrepair that leads to inevitable failure. Its for sure the #1 reason religion has maintained such an iron-fisted hold over mankind.. People simple can't have "the realization" and not wrap it around some form of hope or belief that its really not the end.

But just like that bug you smashed or the roadkill squirrel you saw on the highway, those life forces were extinguished and so too will yours. Another thought exercise I do is reflect on how we view humans in antiquity. How we tend to look down upon them more or less because we are fortunate to live in the modern world and they are not. The terrible thing in my mind is (finally back to this topic) is that WE are the ones that either already are or will be thought of in a different age as the unlucky ones to have come before. We are living in antiquity as I type this. With our handheld computers walking around thinking we are the future. We're not the future, we are the ancient past, the dust in the ground.

We will cure forever consciousness one day, and there will be a massive grieving period for our race when it dawns on everyone, that everyone who had the misfortune to die before eternal consciousness was enabled was more or less a sacrifice. We continue to shoot our genes like a marathon baton into the next fleshbag that lasts about 80 years so that we can incrementally get closer to that salvation. Its a shitty thought, to be taken out of existence before all knowledge and mysteries are made available forever to those future humans.

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Stulam0g t1_ixisn3e wrote

There's no science that says there will be a "forever". Do you think that science will solve that, and in what way is that belief different from religion? Do you not perceive this as a coping mechanism to avoid the reality of death?

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HongoMushroomMan t1_ixiuuob wrote

Well, sure. Its just a vastly superior coping mechanism to the cessation of being. I'd say 1,000 years, 10,000 years, 10 million years, a billion years. All would be drastically better.

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Stulam0g t1_ixixuo6 wrote

Maybe, but even a billion billion years is nothing in the face of the eternity of non existence. Not trying to dunk on you or anything btw, very much in agreement with you, I'm tryin to dodge that fate for as long as possible lmao

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HongoMushroomMan t1_ixiz5ne wrote

Lol no I get it. It's something important to remember that forever basically can't exist. Heat death and such. However, I suppose if one could reposition oneself to a different universe on a different timescale you could postpone it more or less forever by always moving to a new universe. Probably in the next 20 years amirite?

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SpiritedSort672 OP t1_ixj278r wrote

>It's something important to remember that forever basically can't exist. Heat death and such.

Even if the heat death of the universe has a solution, which it may have (who knows?), living forever is by definition impossible, since it's never forever.

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Stulam0g t1_ixjv1t2 wrote

Hopefully less. Honestly I'll take tech that can change me into a person that's chill with facing an eternity of nothing. Take what I can get. Who knows tho, when we're smashing neutron stars together in a couple years, maybe we can break something the right way around.

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Original_Ad_1103 t1_ixkhifu wrote

Heat death? As we get a better understanding of the universe, each new step takes more and more resources. 150 years ago a single physicist or astronomer could on their own still make a world-changing discovery. Now, most major research is done by large groups working together. In the case of particle physics, the research involves literally the largest machines any humans have ever built. And the discoveries are getting smaller. Once one has the basic idea of evolution and DNA, and how RNA functions, in some sense what remains in biology, while quite interesting, just aren't as large or as amazing questions, even if their answers may have a lot of important applications and will continue to help us understand life. And one sees some of this issue also in where practical engineering has gone with science also- between 1885 and 1910 you have the first practical cars, the first radio and the first airplanes. People often like to say were in the midst of a technological revolution, but the turn of that century was far closer to that. Now, while we still have game-changing technologies, they aren't coming as fast. We may be moving into a long plateau.

We absolutely cannot decrease the entropy of a closed system. It's (almost) physically impossible. But it doesn't seem implausible that future engineers might be able to build machines that are efficient enough to approximate processes with zero net entropy increase. Perhaps they could get close enough for all intents and purposes? That's science. Heat death of the universe is what matches the data we have at this moment the best. We might get new data tomorrow.

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TheHamsterSandwich t1_ixxicpp wrote

We either conquer heat death or leave the universe for a new one. Those huge swaths of time will give us a viable solution, if we even assume heat death is the ultimate fate of the universe.

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Verzingetorix t1_ixka91d wrote

People are not stupid. Once a proof-of-concept is demonstrated and an achievable goal for humans is available all we have are pipe dreams. Regardless of how scientifically sound those dreams might be.

There has been ZERO robust rejuvenation of a naturally-aged, complex animal. There's nothing for the general public to buy into. A lot of us are optimistic, engaged and informed about some cutting edge ideas and niche advances. But at the end of the day, there's nothing tangible to sell the idea.

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PandaCommando69 t1_ixl6yxw wrote

There has been rejuvenation of mice. Paper coming out soon. Here's video about it (NBC News) https://youtu.be/DPARs7mL_7Q

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Verzingetorix t1_ixll3zv wrote

Artificially degrading the mice DNA and then inducing DNA repair is not rejuvenation.

They would have to apply their methodology to genetically diverse, elderly mice to demonstrate robust rejuvenation.

Reversing and artificially induced phenotype that resembles aging us a nice lab trick that has been done before.

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Devanismyname t1_ixkbv5b wrote

How do you not understand it when you literally just explained it? For the entirety of human existence, including right now and the foreseeable future, people have died and there was nothing we could do about it. Now, over the horizon, there is the possibility scientists could fix aging and make people live longer. But most people on earth aren't really familiar with this kind of futuristic tech and still view aging and dying as an inevitable part of life. Its not cult like acceptance, its just acceptance of the reality of being alive. If anything, people on this sub are more cult like because they believe with out doubt that we will be immortal.

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PandaCommando69 t1_ixl6knl wrote

We (humans) will be (functionally) immortal. Why not us? Someone has to be the first generation. I think we will be.

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Devanismyname t1_ixmnwao wrote

The odds of it happening are getting worse as the weeks pass. Scientifically, we are closer than ever. But economically, socially, and politically human civilization is headed for some tough times. Deglobalization is happening at lightening speed. That means our supply chains break down, meaning our food, electronics, vehicles and other goods go up in price or become unavailable. That means more and more countries stop manufacturing goods for the west and the overall standard of living on earth drops dramatically. That means there are less and less civilized countries for smart people to come from and continue to advance science because more and more have fallen to starvation and savage wars with one another as countries and alliances fracture and break apart due to starvation and collapse. We are in the beginning of this horrible period of time. The world is breaking apart, loyalties are shifting, breaking, or becoming stronger. This could result in a prolonged period of lower and lower standards of living and stagnation in science and innovation.

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PandaCommando69 t1_ixmr5lu wrote

I agree with you that we are undergoing a de globalization, and that it is having, and will have, many negative effects around the world. From the available data I have been able to examine, I believe that the United States (& Canada and Mexico) is best positioned in the world (integrated domestic economy, plentiful fertile land, and huge quantities raw materials) to ride out the coming storm. Note: If anybody would like someone to blame, feel free to point your fingers directly at China and Russia. If they just could have stopped themselves from being belligerents (and thieves, particularly in the case of China), then we wouldn't have to be doing all this decoupling. Their shortsightedness is going to damn a lot of people around the world (look at the growing food crisis because of the war in Ukraine).

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CrimsonAndGrover t1_ixjw6hy wrote

"Scientifically speaking, traditions are an idiot thing."

-Rick Sanchez

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cunnyvore t1_ixhemfk wrote

There’s no impersonal way to process death, so anyone who tries to reason based on logic or morals is emotionally distancing in some way, from fear or ignorance. Inevitable death seems like a fair thing in some ways, not only it’s an equalizer but also makes the process less lonely. Your loved ones and those you admire have or will have gone through it, and everyone dies alone but if we all end up in one place, it can’t be that bad, can it?

If the immortality becomes a thing, death will only get scarier, so people will be invested in inevitability of it for long time.

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Tocwa t1_ixiqfgc wrote

Even ye mighty, thou famous, all these towering peeps we look up to and admire…they share one absolute with YOU… the guarantee of ☠️

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