Submitted by Beepboopbop8 t3_125wol4 in singularity
informavore t1_je6p0pa wrote
So by that rational we want AI to reflect the values of savage late stage capitalism?
JustinianIV t1_je79i35 wrote
It's just a huge contradiction to think we can somehow ingrain AGI with our current values, and in that way preserve the current socioeconomic model.
True AGI is the end of capitalism. I don't care if you program it to love democracy, if a piece of software can do any job a human can do, the human worker is made obsolete. No job, no salary, no more buying products. What is capitalism's answer to that? There is none. AI is the ultimate manifestation of accelerationism, and it will lead us into a new socioeconomic model.
GorgeousMoron t1_je82xk0 wrote
100% agree. I've been thinking about this quite a lot. We need a new model, stat, to deal with this nascent reality. I haven't the foggiest clue how we might go about implementing such a thing. Better ask my old pal GPT-4.
Beowuwlf t1_je8ivzb wrote
I’m glad there are other people thinking the same things
natepriv22 t1_jea00nf wrote
That is only true if you base your understanding of economics on the labor theory of value. A theory which has been properly refuted for almost 100+ years now.
Our economy is not purely based on human labor like you and Marx claim.
It's based on demand and supply. You can totally have a capitalist model that doesn't involve humans as workers. They could instead be investors and shareholders.
BJPark t1_jea6bxu wrote
Where will the demand come from?
natepriv22 t1_jeagx0r wrote
Demand is based on the infinite wants and desires, (plus values, needs, and utility) whether physical or abstract or both. Demand can be influenced by grounded or imaginary wants and desires.
That's on the larger and broader scale, in the smaller scale, it could be influenced by any external and internal stimuli, which moves the broader scales.
Example: a students sees a friend has a nice pen, and it creates a desire to get that pen themselves.
Labor influences prices, but it does not determine the value of a good. Labor can influence what people demand, but it doesn't create demand itself.
If Labor and demand are not separable as you say, then do unemployed people, children, and old people, have no wants, desires or needs?
Humans will always "demand" whether they are working or not. The demand will change, but it will not fundamentally disappear. If AI and robots make everything, we would still want to have light and hot water in our homes.
Now you might say as others on this sub have "but what if everything can be made instantly by AI". The law of supply and demand states that one influences the other, and that one cannot exist without the other. Therefore, demand will proportionately scale with the supply. If AI can create anything we can currently imagine, then our imagination will extend beyond that. "But what if our imagination cannot stretch beyond AI", then we will demand that our imagination can be increased, maybe by merging with AI.
BJPark t1_jeahiz6 wrote
That's all very well. But do you suggest that we give people things for free, or do you expect people to pay for these demands using money?
natepriv22 t1_jeatf4l wrote
Money is mainly used as a medium of exchange.
It's unlikely that things will be "free" as in no sort of exchange of value, because for a transaction or exchange to take place between two or more parties, they need to each believe that there is a personal or community benefit from this exchange.
For this reason, some form of money will still exist, so that exchanges can properly be performed between parties.
BJPark t1_jeavcrr wrote
Right. Which leads to the question: How will people earn money?
natepriv22 t1_jeayzdd wrote
I guess it should be easier to come up with new ways of making money in an AI world rather than coming up with a completely different economic system or shifting the reality of economic rules to fit a subjective imaginary world view and unrealistic ideal of what and how socialism or communism should work.
In the same way it was almost impossible for someone working in agriculture hundreds if not thousands of years ago to imagine today's software jobs, it's probably as difficult for us to figure out what jobs in 5,10,20,30,etc years from now will look like.
BJPark t1_jeb0hbh wrote
That's a fair point. And of course, it's entirely reasonable to look back at history when we had similar panics about technology replacing human jobs and come to the conclusion that it's all hot air.
But I think we must be cautious in saying that just because we had the boy who cried wolf last time, that there can never be a wolf in the future.
This time might indeed be different, if AI can literally replicate humans. And if we say "Humans will just find new jobs", then the question that immediately comes to mind is "Why can't AI do those jobs as well?"
Personally, I think the future is that AI will also become consumers. This way, corporations can create their own customers and destroy them at will. It's actually the perfect solution. We won't need finicky human beings to power the economy. AI can both consume as well as create goods, and we won't have to destroy capitalism to do it!
As to what will humans do, well... as long as I'm a shareholder in these corporations, I have nothing to worry about.
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