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petermobeter t1_j9sgoe2 wrote

i have another question: if any dynamic system in the same shape as a brain is conscious, regardless of material…….. are all dynamic systems various degrees of “conscious” depending on their complexity? is the earth’s ecosystem conscious? is an anthill conscious? is the tokyo subway system conscious?

what do they require to be conscious systems, as opposed to dynamic systems that arent conscious? inputs & outputs? feedback loops?

edit: oh and also: why am i stuck inside the consciousness of my own brain instead of, say, the consciousness of a stray dog in mexico? my memories make me think im me…… but if i fall asleep, will i wake up as a stray dog in mexico due to that dog having memories that make it think it’s a dog? what holds me here in my brain day after day, sleep after sleep?

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[deleted] OP t1_j9sr20w wrote

Well, this is the essence of the hard problem. We don't know. Adding to that dog in Mexico thought experiment, the opposite scenario is the split-brain experiments. When a person's brain is split in two each half objectively behaves a separate agent yet somehow both identify as the same agent.

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Surur t1_j9sloqf wrote

I personally believe any responsive system is conscious to a degree, reflected by their ability to sense, compute and respond. The more complex and rich that space is, the more conscious the system is.

For example a light switch is conscious of its state, on and off, while the tokyo subway station is not as conscious as a cell, as it has fewer inputs, fewer actions and fewer responses, but a lot more conscious than the light switch.

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turnip_burrito t1_ja01qzg wrote

What defines the spatial borders of a responsive system?

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Surur t1_ja0585j wrote

It that important? The spatial borders are the reach of your control.

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turnip_burrito t1_ja0v8bq wrote

But for a human being, the spatial borders are smaller than our reach of control.

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Surur t1_ja1iwc1 wrote

Is it really. When we control equipment we seem to adopt it's borders pretty well. We can slip into roles such as a person who controls a country pretty easily.

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turnip_burrito t1_ja1mps9 wrote

No, what I mean is you only feel stuff directly touching your nervous system. That's what I mean by spatial borders.

The spatial borders of what a person experiences are their nervous system. Why? And furthermore, what is the equivalent for a light bulb or a piece of carpet?

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Surur t1_ja1p6jo wrote

But that is not true. As I explained, we are easily able to expand our spatial borders to include machines we control.

And that question is not reasonable to ask for something which has only two states like a light switch or none like a carpet

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turnip_burrito t1_ja1pqh4 wrote

That's not quite what I mean by spatial borders. I don't mean stuff you are causally connected to. I mean something different. I'm not going to go into any more detail though since it's a bit boring.

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