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Jealous-Pop-8997 t1_j053ro2 wrote

Reply to comment by CatOfGrey in Autopsy-based histopathological characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination by Razariousnefarian

It’s not this simple because depending on a person’s state of health they may be at an extremely low risk of myocarditis should they get Covid and in these cases the myocarditis risk for those individuals is higher with the vaccine than with Covid

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CatOfGrey t1_j055d3s wrote

Thus, the quote that I call Point #1.

OP is posting in places and ways that suggest otherwise, which is why I claim misinformation.

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Jealous-Pop-8997 t1_j0579dw wrote

Yes I was responding to point number one. Some individuals are actually at greater risk of myocarditis from the vaccine as what you’ve referred to are broad population averages. Another part of the issue is how since the causality between the vaccine and myocarditis isn’t recognized how the data is skewed or we could say that conclusions are tailored/shoehorned to meet the hypotheses

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ADDeviant-again t1_j05bca0 wrote

Link a study.

Causality has been widely recognized, which is one reason we know incidence to be so low.

Where are you getting this idea that your personal risks of a COVID infection being so mild, that your risk is greater from the vaccine? That sounds like more of the fuzzy math I keep hearing (and debunking) being used to pretend that COVID only affects sick people and old people....blah, blah.

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Jealous-Pop-8997 t1_j05boen wrote

I had Covid already and I am going based on data that also accounts for cardio metabolic health and nutrient deficiencies or lack thereof rather than just age BMI gender and other diseases etc.

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CatOfGrey t1_j057l18 wrote

>Yes I was responding to point number one. Some individuals are actually at greater risk of myocarditis from the vaccine as what you’ve referred to are broad population averages.

An item worth studying. A question for doctors, perhaps. Given the overwhelming data, not something that should impact a person's decision whether or not to get vaccinated.

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Jealous-Pop-8997 t1_j058svt wrote

Well the fact that the overwhelming data shows that the vaccine poses more risk to me personally than the infection, this should inform my decision whether or not to get vaccinated

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CatOfGrey t1_j05ftsz wrote

What is your basis in the data?

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arealdoctor25 t1_j05kh6m wrote

There is no basis. There is no data. He is speculating that off of either his pure ignorance, or misrepresented data from sources with ulterior motives. There are no studies showing folks have a higher risk of myocarditis from vaccine compared to infection, in any populations

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JaelPendragon t1_j076xcr wrote

You have no data, stop lying and get properly educated on the subject

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ADDeviant-again t1_j05af1b wrote

This is almost complete nonsense. The only thing I can come up to give your post a sliver of possible accuracy, IF WE REACH, is a previous extreme allergic reaction to one of the OTHER vaccine ingredients (besides the RNA), which are common in other vaccines, and other injectable medications.

Can you name any other chronic condition or "state of health" where data even remotely suggests an active COVID infection is statistically (or otherwise, hell) SAFER than a vaccination?

Can you show me that study? Not some random one-off case that cannot be proven, or that you heard about this one time from this guy. Data?

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Jealous-Pop-8997 t1_j05bdi5 wrote

Risk assessment should be individualized not based on broad averages for a population. For example let’s say a study came out showing that the general population ate too little protein and the average person needs to increase their protein. Perhaps I as an individual eat too much protein. Why would my recommendation be affected by a broad average for a population?

I eat a low carb diet and I am in great cardio metabolic health and I get plenty of exercise and have no nutrient deficiencies. The general population is at high risk with Covid because this does not describe them and high carb, seed oils is the popular diet. Most don’t get sufficient cardio exercise and have a few deficiencies.

My personal risk of complications with the vaccine is much higher whereas for some individuals the risk is higher with infection

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LouieMumford t1_j05536k wrote

This makes no sense. They would be at a low risk relative to Covid exposure. But the point is risk post exposure vs post vaccine. The study shows that risk is worse post Covid exposure vs vaccine exposure. Given the ubiquity of Covid exposure at this point one would have to do a risk analysis and would inevitably find that the vaccine is objectively safer than unvaccinated exposure to the virus. Your comment makes no sense.

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primal_screame t1_j05733h wrote

Is there any data that shows myocarditis risk after Covid exposure if you have already been vaccinated? If there is, then it would make sense there would be an additive effect of myocarditis cases from the vaccine plus myocarditis cases from catching Covid after being vaccinated. Either way, the numbers are pretty small on all the scenarios, I was just curious if there was data for that combination.

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Explorer456 t1_j05aits wrote

I think that assessing the occurrence of myocarditis in individuals who are vaccinated post COVID infection is important future research, if none is present. The possibility of there being an additive effect would likely be determined by the cause of myocarditis post infection/vaccination.

“It is under debate whether myocarditis in COVID-19 is primarily caused by the viral infection or whether it occurs secondary as a consequence of the host´s immune response, in particular by T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity or as a consequence of the cytokine storm observed during COVID-19 [25]”

The authors note that the cause of myocarditis from COVID-19 infection is up for debate. If it is related to “T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity” I am inclined to believe that there wouldn’t be an additive effect of vaccine + infection. My logic, albeit with minimal knowledge in virology, is that by have t cells created by the vaccine would be present prior to the virus. Thus able to respond prior to extensive cell infection and reduce the “T-lymphocyte-mediated cytotoxicity.”

Again, my logic my be flawed due to a misunderstanding or missing knowledge. I am open to corrections/reading to help guide me.

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primal_screame t1_j05bqi5 wrote

That makes total sense if that is the mechanism. I was trying to think if the mechanism is the same, why wouldn’t it be equal between vaccine and infection. If there was data on the combination, it might give better clarity on if it’s the same mechanism.

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Jealous-Pop-8997 t1_j056dur wrote

You are definitely confused but it does make sense. Yes, the comparison being made is myocarditis risk between Covid-19 exposure and vaccination. These risks are weighed or averaged for the general population.

Many individuals are at such a low risk of a severe covid case that they are more likely to get myocarditis resulting from vaccination

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JaelPendragon t1_j0774zc wrote

And yet you provide no proof of your baseless claim. Go get educated on the subject before spreading antivax propaganda and misinformation

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