Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

BuddhasFinger t1_j02oxu5 wrote

Reply to comment by kittenTakeover in Eight weeks of mindfulness training improves adolescents’ attentional control, study finds by chrisdh79

In my neck of the woods I'd expect learning how to meditate. It takes 1-2 hours.

What's interesting, some Buddhist monasteries in Asia have programs for problem youths where folks have a choice of going to prison or staying with the monastery until the abbot feels they are in a good spot. I remember, usually it's somewhere around 1-6 months. They learn how to meditate and basically leave with monks and follow the same routines and discipline. It's said that the impact is usually hugely positive because children and teens learn how to be mindful that allows them to observe and to manage their negative thoughts, speech and actions. It becomes a life-long thing, just like learning how to ride a bicycle.

I don't know how well this approach scales, though. We would need a lot of those monasteries here in the States.

17

kittenTakeover t1_j02r7us wrote

>In my neck of the woods I'd expect learning how to meditate. It takes 1-2 hours.

Can you describe the activity that you call meditation? If someone wanted to do it on their or do a study about it, how would they execute meditation?

6

sensible_cat t1_j03aypk wrote

Mindfulness means being fully aware of the present moment, rather than being caught up in your own thoughts. It's basically the opposite of being on autopilot. Mindfulness training or meditation is simply practicing being aware of the present moment for a length of time (could be an hour, could be 5 minutes, could be a whole day). When meditating, a good anchor to tie you to the present moment is your breath. Be aware of your breath - breathe in, breathe out. There's no need to control the depth or speed, just breathe comfortably, and feel each breath in your lungs, chest and abdomen. Notice your hands, shoulders, legs, feet. Release any tension you're holding. When your mind wanders, notice your thoughts. Accept them, and then gently bring your attention back to your breath. If you feel any emotions, notice and accept them too, then gently bring your attention back to your breath, in and out. Try setting a timer for 30-60 seconds, just to try it out. Then try 5 minutes. If it's going well, try making it a daily habit. You can gradually add more time per session if that feels right for you, or you can keep it short and sweet. There is no wrong way to practice mindfulness. If you are able to redirect your attention from a passing thought back to your breath even one time, you have succeeded. My final tips are that it helps to have a comfortable place to sit, and to set a timer for your preferred amount of time with a nice calming bell or other soothing alarm sound.

7

kittenTakeover t1_j03bn1h wrote

So if you were making a study would say that mindfulness is achieved when a subject is lead through a conscious breathing exercise? Is that how you would define it?

2

sensible_cat t1_j03fubk wrote

I wouldn't say that mindfulness is "achieved" at all. I would say it's something we practice and strive for in order to live a better life. If you're looking for a more scientific definition, I'm not sure there is one. The study did, however, find quantifiable effects of engaging in mindfulness training, including better performance on attentional control tests.

2

kittenTakeover t1_j03l3mo wrote

>If you're looking for a more scientific definition, I'm not sure there is one

Then the conversation doesn't belong on a science subreddit. Although I think your statement may be a little too pessimistic as there's likely adequately rigorous ways to define the word, even if different people may define it slightly differently.

−1

eightdx t1_j054qir wrote

In the Zen practice, they sometimes refer to the seated meditation practice as "just sitting", because that is sort of the long and short of the activity. The mental dimension to it is slightly more complex, but encompasses why it is called a practice.

The goal is not to enact strict controls upon oneself, but rather open oneself up to experiencing oneself more fully. Thoughts will approach, but as one master once said: leave your front door open and your back door open -- thoughts will come and go, just don't serve them tea. That is the toughest part for most people, I think: the part about letting the mind empty out naturally.

I also think that's the part most people misunderstand, as they think that meditation is about some sort of self-deprivation, when it's actually quite the opposite. By learning how to process our thoughts and emotions, we can better express ourselves and do so in healthier ways.

It's just some thoughts, I'm sure they'll go away soon enough

4

Gormac12 t1_j03358e wrote

Well for one, mediation can be deeply personal and there is no single 'way to achieve meditation'.

In my experience, meditation is a process of bringing your body and mind to a restful, mindful state, and then listening to the thoughts and sensations that your body and mind are feeding to you. Allowing yourself to explore and feel those sensations, before letting them go and returning to the restful state.

2

kittenTakeover t1_j034nk6 wrote

In science you need a way of defining your experiment so that it's repeatable. I guess I'm looking for the definition of "meditation," either from the research or other peoples opinions on what they would call meditation.

0

Gormac12 t1_j037dt7 wrote

Again, you're not going to have much success looking for a widely acknowledged & accepted definition for meditation, at least not one that's more than "sit still and try to be calm", due to the highly personal nature of the activity.

You might find some really long winded and elaborate definitions that fit almost all personal interpretations that might exist though.

1

kittenTakeover t1_j03853i wrote

It doesn't need to be widely acknowledged. I'm just looking for different definitions, either by individuals on this subreddit or by the authors of the quoted study. Without definitions for measurement and reproducibility talk of meditation doesn't belong on a science subreddit. Luckily, I suspect that some people have their own definitions, even if you're not one of those people.

0

Gormac12 t1_j0394tt wrote

I attempted to communicate my definition of meditation via the phrase 'in my experience'. I hope you are able to find your own definition.

2

kittenTakeover t1_j03ci6b wrote

>In my experience, meditation is a process of bringing your body and mind to a restful, mindful state, and then listening to the thoughts and sensations that your body and mind are feeding to you. Allowing yourself to explore and feel those sensations, before letting them go and returning to the restful state.

This is not a definition that can be clearly repeated. How do you know when the subject is "restful" enough and "mindful" enough? What differentiates the "rest" of meditation from other forms of rest? I totally respect that your definition is individual. There's nothing wrong with that. However the definition you have described to me is not really actionable for a scientific study.

2

Gormac12 t1_j03d5pq wrote

>not really actionable for a scientific study.

That's completely fair, my intention was more to provide a data point of my personal definition.

4