Comments
banjosuicide t1_j17wyym wrote
Additionally it was funded by Entoura, whose name is mentioned not infrequently in the paper.
Having worked in research, I've seen it's not uncommon for companies to commission a number of studies and choose to publish only those that happen to support their product. That's not to say this isn't legit, but I'm always wary of industry-sponsored studies.
edit: a word
ImSorry2HearThat t1_j18ugxr wrote
First thing we learned in my psychology 101 class. Always see who funded the research
Doomquill t1_j19eal7 wrote
I'm a stay at home Dad. Probably the single thing I learned in college that I use most often is vetting sources for bias and accuracy.
Trying to figure out how to make a balanced diet is insanely hard, if you're interested in finding actual information about what our bodies actually need.
"Eat carbs!" ~Study by the Carbohydrate Consortium "Eat eggs!" ~Study by the Egg Exhibition "Eat steak!" ~Study by Ranchers Reunited
RafiqTheHero t1_j1ajh3a wrote
Finding a balanced diet by studies alone can be difficult.
But it's hard to go wrong by sticking with minimally processed foods that are mostly plant-based. That's what most cultures around the world have done for hundreds of years, if not longer.
Journalist/author Michael Pollan (who has researched/investigated food a lot) has a saying, which seems pretty helpful. "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much."
The cultures in the world with a high number of people who live to be 100+ essentially eat this way. Not vegetarian, but low meat consumption with an emphasis on vegetables, healthy oils, grains, fruits, nuts, seeds, etc.
Doomquill t1_j1am3yj wrote
I still have a desire to find a hydroponic/greenhouse solution the "simplest sustainable meal", something (or set of somethings) that can provide mostly complete nutrition that can be grown in one's basement or greenhouse or what have you. Unfortunately food variety is both the spice and preserver of life.
IntuitiveMotherhood t1_j1a3zij wrote
Can I have your two cents on a healthy diet? I assume you’ve been here before…
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ZebulonPi t1_j18qgtj wrote
I wouldn’t be surprised if most of these Reddit posts were ALSO sponsored by cannabis companies. They make all these claims, with little to no actual clinical research, and then trumpet them out to the masses, all to get people to believe that getting high, which is something they already want to do, is actually somehow good for them. It reminds me of the “alcohol is good for your heart” myth that went around a while ago.
seven_tech t1_j18rv46 wrote
But CBD doesn't get you high....so they have nothing to gain by doing that here.
Edit: nevermind- I read 'cannabis oil' as 'CBD oil'.
For disclosure - I use CBD oil. It doesn't 'help me sleep' but does reduce my anxiety and anxious thoughts, which is what keeps me awake often.
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PicardTangoAlpha t1_j17zjzl wrote
That’s not double blind or controlled. Headline is fake.
curt15-club t1_j19w90x wrote
Unless I’m missing something it is. Double blind placebo controlled means neither the people taking the drug nor anyone interacting with them knows whether they’re on the placebo or the marijuana, it has nothing to do with the low sample size or self-reported symptoms.
aminervia t1_j183vxs wrote
And, if the placebo doesn't get you high it stops being a placebo and turns into "oh I didn't get the marijuana then"
Also, isn't 60% about the level of the placebo effect? If everyone who received the medication knew they did and only 60% saw improvement doesn't that just mean that it works about the same as a placebo?
Wassux t1_j18jkvn wrote
Idk much about this but I know that is wrong. You cannot cure 60% of problems with placebo. It's 10% more that you can cure with placebo I think
aminervia t1_j19wm2h wrote
"Placebos are extraordinary drugs. They seem to have some effect on almost every symptom known to mankind, and work in at least a third of patients and sometimes in up to 60 percent. "
Wassux t1_j19wunm wrote
Effect, not cure.
And yes because some symptoms just disappear naturally. Headache is a great example.
Insomnia is not like that. Will it have an effect? Ofcourse. But not cure 60% of them.
aminervia t1_j19zf5h wrote
>Effect, not cure.
Where in the article did you read about a "cure"? Where did you read about longer term follow up?
It seems like you don't know what the word "effect" or "cure" means in a medical sense
Wassux t1_j1a0e7y wrote
"No longer classified as insomniacs. "
If you had cancer and you no longer classified as having cancer, would you call that cured or not?
I didn't talk about longer term follow up? Seems like I know the difference just fine. If I am confused somewhere, explaining it is going to get us further than this.
aminervia t1_j1a10d4 wrote
Dude, yes, you don't know anything about cancer either. This is commonly known and discussed... If you had cancer and you're no longer technically classified as having cancer, you are "in remission" not cured.
>I didn't talk about longer term follow up? Seems like I know the difference just fine. If I am confused somewhere, explaining it is going to get us further than this.
A tiny study on insomniacs showed that about 60% (within the placebo range) no longer showed the required symptoms to be diagnosed as insomniacs.
They did not do any long-term follow-up meaning that immediately after treatment they didn't show symptoms, but there's no longer-term documentation. This is absolutely something that the placebo effect could explain away
Wassux t1_j1a7zpe wrote
You just made up that that can be explained by the placebo. If you have form of proof, reasoning or anything at all other than because you say it is I would love to hear it. But I have never heard of placebo curing 60% of a group.
aminervia t1_j1a9wtx wrote
The whole point of having a study like this is to compare the active medication to the placebo. So, you give half the people up the placebo and half the people the real medication.
If you'll go back to my original comment, my point was that this study did not have a placebo trial because you'd automatically know whether or not you got the medication because it made you high.
I already shared a source with you that the placebo effect can go up to 60%, and this is especially true with medication that a lot of people are excited about.
Therefore, because this study did not have a reasonable control, there's no way of knowing whether or not the benefit from the active medication isn't placebo.
I've already explained everything to you now, I've already shared a source. You've already explained that you don't know much about this... I'm not sure what else there is to argue about?
Blake198624601 t1_j1ayhwd wrote
Placebo effect ≠ therapeutic effectiveness. If 60% can be expected to experience the placebo effect, that doesn’t mean that 60% will experience therapeutic relief.
spaceherpe61 t1_j18kbd3 wrote
Full disclosure, I was having sleeping issues and decided to try medical marijuana. Sleep like a baby now.
ramriot t1_j18kp7h wrote
Damn, I reported same to my doctor & all I got was this CPAP machine.
It works great, but damn has I known I would have opted for the good stuff.
JoeWhy2 t1_j196uns wrote
So they were "clinical insomniacs" until someone actually watched them sleep.
Alaishana t1_j16fa5q wrote
Great, good news.
I got one problem with this study though: All sleeping pills have got a habituation effect, where the user gets used to the medication and consequently needs higher and higher doses. Everyone who is prescribed sleeping pills is warned not to use them constantly.
Same goes for those who just use Melatonin. It's a hormone after all, so if you take it orally, you would expect the body to produce less of it and you get a habituation effect too.
(My doctor grinned wryly: "They SAY it's not addictive, but of course it is.")
So, this trial was for two weeks for each group on cannabis oil and two weeks on a placebo. How will this look after 3 months, a year?
I'm well aware that the trial was not designed to answer this, all I want to say is: Before we know long term effects, we should be careful with thinking we found the perfect solution.
Timigos t1_j16vzpv wrote
While I agree, I think this is another proof that cannabis obviously has medical benefit and should not be schedule I.
Even if there is an addictive quality and the benefits may wain over time, it still proves comparably useful as to other medically acceptable alternatives.
AlexeiMarie t1_j17sn7i wrote
Generally, I wouldn't even consider it to be an "addictive quality" -- in the case of a particular dose no longer getting the same effects, it's more of a physical dependency (like many, many other medications), not the mental component of addiction
Willmono7 t1_j16zo3e wrote
I don't think medicinal value should determine legality/control status. Opiates and amphetamines have their place in medicine too, but definitely deserve to be tightly controlled.
Edit: I'm dumb and was thinking of the UK classification system
rbesfe t1_j170pr5 wrote
It's supposed to be medicinal value combined with potential for harm. Unfortunately it's really just political, alcohol has way more potential to kill its user than weed even when you factor in smoke inhalation effects. Anyone remember that clip of Nancy Grace saying stoners kill families?
Timigos t1_j171vde wrote
I’m glad you think that but it’s not reality.
Scheduled I must have no medicinal benefits. Cannabis is still Schedule I.
Cocaine has been Schedule II forever.
Willmono7 t1_j172d0c wrote
I've realised that , as I'm British, I'm thinking of the British system of classification and this will definitely be US. Apologies, I have the dumb, and ironically my melatonin is kicking in.
VenflonBandit t1_j17rmnc wrote
Its a schedule 2 controlled drug in the UK. Class B. Schedule is set by medical use/risk of misuse. Class being the social badness. Schedule sets storage, possession and prescribing requirements and class sets punishment when caught.
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kslusherplantman t1_j17egjc wrote
When I went to visit my uncle in the hospital after he had a heart attack, I nearly had one when they came to cauterize his nose because it kept bleeding… and injected cocaine HCL into the membranes of his nose.
Bottle of liquid cocaine. Even said it right on the bottle. Blew me away
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Jasoli53 t1_j17iwu4 wrote
Anecdotal, but that’s the thing with cannabis in my experience… I’ve been smoking/vaping for around 8 years now. Nearly daily. It helps curb my anxiety (most of the time), and helps me relax enough to sleep. I don’t smoke all day like some people, and my tolerance, while higher than it was, is much much lower than a lot of people I know.
I’m excited for when we get a trial on tolerance vs consumption habits or whatnot. There’s a lot we anecdotally ‘know’ about it, but there’s so much we truly don’t know
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Nauin t1_j1ei9mp wrote
I'm a constant user and I want the same studies done, too. Like I'm extremely thankful it helps with my pain and immobility so I can get through my day but I'd like to know what I'm actually doing to myself in the long run.
CaptainTurdfinger t1_j183zbb wrote
Damn, just a few drops? What's your ratio of flower to oil? What kind of oil? I'm using like 1-1.5mL each time.
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CaptainTurdfinger t1_j192u6p wrote
Thanks. I have a few questions.
1:1 by weight or volume?
How long do you let it simmer? The normal 3 hours?
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iwascompromised t1_j18ar1t wrote
I have this battle with my wife over melatonin. She takes it every night and if she doesn’t fall asleep in five minutes I hear her getting another one out.
jimmypootron34 t1_j18mih3 wrote
I would check that it’s a literature recommended dose. Melatonin, for patent reasons at least in the US from what I’ve read, often comes in amounts many times larger than what is produced endogenously. May be a bit late at this point but the dose recommended by actual data may also work well and not give any side effects like making someone totally dependent on it. I mean it doesn’t seem to be harmful even in these larger Doses, but I know it can be annoying to depend on something all the time.
Looked it up, the dose it’s supposed to come in based on the data is about 1/3 of a mg or 300mcg. Many come in about 3-5mg which is obviously many times more than that.
Nauin t1_j1eilo8 wrote
Show her the studies that show melatonin is less effective at higher doses. We're seriously overdosing with the bottle-reccomended doses, anyway. It's like 0.3mgs or something that's the optimal dose, the lowest I can find a pill in is 1-2mgs.
FacialTic t1_j17p1fs wrote
Personal experience: I've used cannabis for the past 8 years to help me sleep. Im currently on vacation in a country where it is illegal and unobtainable. Alternating between melatonin and histamine based sleep aids has worked well to help sleep. I took CBD oil and a bit of nicotine to help with withdrawal symptoms. By the third day I was fine, and I'm on day 15 of the trip with no noticeable withdrawal symptoms.
EricSombody t1_j16yfsz wrote
Sounds like a treatment would just be to rotate different sleeping medication then...
Y8ser t1_j17enf4 wrote
I have been using low dose THC edibles that contain cannabinoids as well. They are absolutely awesome. I take them just about daily and haven't built up a noticeable tolerance or noticed any side affects that are typically associated with marijuana use.
jimmypootron34 t1_j178fnt wrote
Your body does when melatonin is taken in large amounts, which it usually comes in unfortunately. The original literature described a dose of something like 5 micrograms, and usually it comes in doses of several milligrams. So that’s why it will definitely make you sleep but you also feel so groggy the next day, the amount is far more than what occurs internally. I don’t disagree though to some extent. Many treatments seem to have reduction in effect over time, but still effective. Or needs to have changes in dosage/time off if possible. I think it would help if people better understood the sort of diminishing returns nature of it. Try to find a place where the effectiveness is good even if not great, and the dosage doesn’t cause issues. Such as with melatonin I didn’t really like to use it because the typical dose comes with the grogginess and all of that, but at the dose it should be at that didn’t happen.
FateLeita t1_j17ej1m wrote
What about off-label sleeping meds? I take trazodone every night for sleep. Been on the same dosage for about 7 years. I never skip a dose (cannot sleep).
salamander05 t1_j17go81 wrote
Trazodone was developed and used as an antidepressant before being used as a sleep aid. I suspect because of this it works in a different way than a typical sleeping pill.
lmaccaro t1_j17hgqd wrote
It's a dual dosage med - whatever that term is. In low doses it puts you to sleep. In high doses it makes you less depressed.
Alarmed-Accident-716 t1_j18mwzd wrote
I’ve been smoking the same pre-bed bowl pack in my volcano for 10 years… my weed consumption never changes.
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funkytownb0xcutter t1_j18kw84 wrote
When I first started using I slept like a baby, but that only lasted maybe 3 months before it was back to normal. Just my experience.
Thomgurl21 t1_j18vcyh wrote
My personal experience…not addictive and still effective many years later. All medicines have drawback. What’s the lesser evil I guess?
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UnderlightIll t1_j197jy0 wrote
I would normally agree but as someone who has had trouble sleeping for most of my life, I haven't changed my benadryl dosage or my edible dosage at all.
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Vintage_Dog_Dude t1_j1epx5n wrote
I have run into that problem myself. The only solution I have found is to take breaks from the oil. Then my body's THC tolerance returns to normal. I usually take a 4 day break from it. During that time, I usually feel pretty lousy, no appetite, short-tempered and grumpy.
I would say a prescription approach that might work is to administer cannabis oil for 3 weeks and then do a week of something like trazadone to decrease tolerance and switch back after that week. But I am not a doctor, so who knows.
So I can't say totally that I believe it isn't a little addictive. But I was addicted to cigarettes before and can say it isn't like that, it's more of a mental crutch or outlet that helps me reframe my thoughts and relax.
Although, sometimes I work so much that I just naturally have these t-breaks because I have to work late and go in early again and don't bother with edibles.
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Berzurker t1_j16zcu3 wrote
Interesting finding but what about quality of rest? It’s my understanding that, like going to bed drunk, going to bed high messes with your REM sleep cycle.
I’d be interested to know definitively how sleep quality is affected by cannabis.
Heidenreich12 t1_j17j9f6 wrote
So I took Trazadone for 5 years to help me sleep, and got tired of the sleepy feeling I’d have in the mornings.
A couple years ago I started taking specific mg’s of a gummy every night at the same time and found after tweaking brands, and dosage I can consistently sleep through the night and wake up more naturally. I’d say the quality of sleep is as comparable.
GSXR-1100 t1_j18s3af wrote
My anecdotal experience is very similar.
Weed beats actually prescribed sleeping meds every time.
Altruistic-Bobcat955 t1_j175l8q wrote
That would be helpful info. I have insomnia side effects due to meds and refuse sleeping pills from my doc as I don’t want the groggy effects and I’ve heard sleep quality isn’t the same
salamander05 t1_j17hal9 wrote
Agreed, it would be helpful to include that info. Anecdotally, I’ve tried melatonin and OTC sleep aids and I’m always groggy in the morning. I don’t think I metabolize them effectively or quickly enough. I don’t sleep well but it’s not considered insomnia. High CBC/low THC drops seem to work really well for me and I don’t wake up groggy at all.
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lmaccaro t1_j17hjtt wrote
My understanding is you don't need to take enough to get "high".
alliusis t1_j17ggqs wrote
That's what my doctor told me about cannabis - said it knocks you out but destroys sleep quality Sleep quality is very important to my well-being so I've still never tried it.
Edwunclerthe3rd t1_j17ymg4 wrote
I take an extremely long amount of time to fall asleep and I wake up easily. For me, just being asleep sometimes is worth way more than the quality. I notice you wake up "hazy" sometimes but 30-45 minutes after you're waking up you're good to go
Picticious t1_j17su9y wrote
I can’t relate to that, since I’ve been on the oil my sleep quality definitely improved, along with my Asthma too strangely enough.
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Vintage_Dog_Dude t1_j1eo7p9 wrote
In my experience I have a good quality full nights of sleep and wake up feeling refreshed. I tried many different sleep/anxiety meds, but really cannabis oil is the only thing I found that works. And not just for insomnia, but for my depression and anxiety as well.
As far as quality of sleep, I believe it is in the timing. You take edibles with dinner and they begin wearing off when it is time to go to bed. The "wearing off" effect is what makes you sleepy. If you take a huge dose before bed, you will have crazy dreams and wake up stoned at 2 AM. In my anecdotal experience at least.
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charliekunkel t1_j17o4gn wrote
CBD only, sure. But 10mg of THC puts me into stoned out of my gourd panic attack mode. No thank you. I have friends that drink those 100mg THC drinks and feel totally normal though, so it all depends on the person.
IamGoldenGod t1_j18rpgr wrote
if your sensitive 10mg is way to much, I do well with like 2mg which some candies are at but sometimes you have to break them up.
Soupseason t1_j178qd7 wrote
Great, but what happens after the stop taking the cannabis oil? Will they still no longer be classified as insomniacs, or is the underlying issue still present?
IMO insomnia is very much psychological, so unless you actually deal with the issue, drugs should be treated as supplementary to a recovery program.
dedoubt t1_j18byss wrote
>insomnia is very much psychological
There are so many causes of insomnia, it is not purely psychological. That's like saying stomach aches are "very much psychological".
Chronic insomnia may also be associated with medical conditions or the use of certain drugs.
Medical conditions. Examples of conditions linked with insomnia include chronic pain, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), overactive thyroid, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Sleep-related disorders. Sleep apnea causes you to stop breathing periodically throughout the night, interrupting your sleep. Restless legs syndrome causes unpleasant sensations in your legs and an almost irresistible desire to move them, which may prevent you from falling asleep.
saavedro t1_j17fcj2 wrote
So, yes, but a lot of things we don't fully understand or have a solution for. I have extremely bad anxiety and resulting insomnia. CBD has dramatically helped me control anxiety especially at night which helps me sleep which in turn reduces my anxiety because I'm getting better sleep. It's a really bad cycle and it's tough to get out of, or at least, that's been my experience.
dvdmaven t1_j16gkt5 wrote
If the Journal of Sleep Research deems this good enough to publish, that's good enough for me. However, until cannabis in all of its forms is completely legalized at the US Federal level, it's not an option.
TheManInTheShack t1_j16hj3s wrote
The only side effect is that in the middle of the night they sleepwalk to the refrigerator and eat everything inside it.
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jay_goff t1_j17irre wrote
“60% of the time, it works everytime…”
SexPanther_Bot t1_j17iteq wrote
It's quite potent
PhaedrusC t1_j17spxl wrote
I suffer from occasional insomnia (around 2-3 times a week).
I tried cannabis oil, it helped for about a week and then stopped having any effect.
RiaSilmane t1_j18f1nl wrote
I have stage 3 cancer. I also suffered from real night terrors from my time in the military. Once I’d awaken, falling back to sleep wasn’t an option. Last fact is I was staunchly opposed to cannabis use.
Following my diagnosis and first surgery, my oncologist asked me to start cannabis use. I was resistant for several months but eventually conceded. I now take RSO(Rick Simpson Oil), which he designed for cancer patients. I point that out bc I don’t smoke, vape etc and I’m not sure how different methods impact a person.
Since the first time, I sleep soundly thru the night. It keeps my stomach settled thru treatments. It’s been life changing. I suffered insomnia and nightmares for a little over twenty years and a drop of this oil the size of an m&m solves it.
I’m a older dude, set in his ways…not prone to change. I also don’t take medication other than vitamins. Cannabis is the most I’ve flipped on a subject.
Scoliopteryx t1_j186zrq wrote
My anecdotal experience is that the cannabis oil worked very well for 2 months and then I started to struggle with sleep again and it became worse over time until my sleep was just as bad as it was before I started the oil.
sturmblast t1_j18gt8v wrote
cannabis cured my insomnia 20 plus years ago now
Orlando1701 t1_j18rzr4 wrote
That’s great unless you’re a chronic insomniac who works for a place that does random drug tests.
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Bad_Dragon_Pink t1_j16xpyv wrote
How is the oil used though, i recall seeing some kinda muscular dis trophy or epilepsy patient use it under their tongue if I recall correctly.
saavedro t1_j17fiqg wrote
I have MD and insanely bad anxiety. Yes it's under the tongue and it helps a lot with anxiety and pain in my experience.
carolizzy81 t1_j172f8a wrote
It helps me. I just take half a 5 mg gummy. It takes the edge off and shuts down my brain just enough to go to sleep. If I take 5mg I'll be up raiding the pantry in the middle of the night. I wake up refreshed and not groggy.
Remivanputsch t1_j17a9fn wrote
Amazing it totally does work but unfortunately I need to get a job that tests
monkeyballs2 t1_j17gaue wrote
Stoned sleep is not proper sleep. You lay down and are nearly asleep but your mind is running and doesn’t go properly under. You get rested but don’t really feel mentally like you have slept. Itll stop you from moving but sleep is more than that. There’s something not right about stoned sleep.
NotThereDad t1_j17mwed wrote
I hear it messes with REM sleep
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Mammoth_Effective_68 t1_j17qo2j wrote
Does cannabinoids cause dementia?
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oprahjimfrey t1_j17u328 wrote
What is with the picture of feet for every article about sleep?
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Dan_Caveman t1_j1877aj wrote
My wife and I can personally vouch for this
Alarmed-Accident-716 t1_j18mm83 wrote
I have sleep issues, smoke weed, no more sleep issues.
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GSXR-1100 t1_j18rur2 wrote
Tbh great sleep is one of the single things that keeps me smoking weed.
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karlkrum t1_j19g0ux wrote
And then developed a substance use disorder and substance induced mood disorder
Mechanized1 t1_j1ab8i7 wrote
I had a CBD infused drink and while I didn't get high it was the best nights sleep I had in years. I absolutely believe this study.
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[deleted] t1_j1aiwcw wrote
Two weeks isn't nearly long enough to measure the benefits. Insomnia is in large part a psychological issue, and novel changes to routine including various drugs, supplements etc. will often promote temporary benefits up to about two weeks, after which time the benefits become inconsistent to negligible. Cannabis has been shown to interfere with sleep architecture (inhibits REM) and create dependency, and for many isn't a long term, sustainable solution.
30tpirks t1_j17c1ru wrote
Been sleeping with CBD for about a year (10-20mg). Legit works. I found it needs to build up a bit in your system.
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EvLokadottr t1_j181snp wrote
Sure wish I wasn't allergic. :(
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RedditIsDogshit1 t1_j19kkrb wrote
Insomnia is a subjective, minor mental impairment. If you have the mentality to undergo the placebo effect, you have the mentality to sleep if you wish it.
frankenspider t1_j16miiv wrote
That's great but not exactly affordable. I bought a years worth of Benadryl for $8.
BaconSoul t1_j174647 wrote
Benadryl stops working eventually as tolerance builds fast and it can have some nasty king term effects in your kidneys
Sguru1 t1_j17grzh wrote
Benadryl / anticholinergics every night puts you at a real risk of dementia and other cognitive disorders in old age (among other things). Really not a great option.
lmaccaro t1_j17hp4m wrote
There was a study that showed about 300 doses in your lifetime would give you about a 30% higher change of early dementia.
I don't have the study at hand but that is a rough estimate of the findings. So I stopped taking it.
ramriot t1_j17el2q wrote
Full disclosure, the study was of only 29 participants who self-reported their clinical symptoms.