Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

DopeDetective t1_ix3a5p8 wrote

I think there is probably a genetic component as well

im very unhealthy as far as food/exercise & I only seem to need 6-7hrs of sleep

I wake up instantly in the morning with no grogginess & I'm immediately out of bed

−12

ExploratoryCucumber t1_ix3cxwl wrote

> How people wake up and regain alertness in the hours after sleep is related to how they are sleeping, eating, and exercising. Here, in a prospective longitudinal study of 833 twins and genetically unrelated adults, we demonstrate that how effectively an individual awakens in the hours following sleep is not associated with their genetics, but instead, four independent factors: sleep quantity/quality the night before, physical activity the day prior, a breakfast rich in carbohydrate, and a lower blood glucose response following breakfast.

19

DopeDetective t1_ix3dj2y wrote

sure but I guarantee sleep quality/quantity/ability & glucose response are both effected by genetics if not defined by it.

−16

ExploratoryCucumber t1_ix3dz58 wrote

Please provide a peer reviewed study backing up your opinion you're trying to pass off as a guarantee.

19

DopeDetective t1_ix3eye8 wrote

it's common sense imo. diabetes is genetic. circadian rythm is genetic. insomnia & sleep apnea are genetic.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2019/08/415261/after-10-year-search-scientists-find-second-short-sleep-gene

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734884/

−13

odd-42 t1_ix3xxvc wrote

We do research to find out if common sense is correct, sometimes it isn’t. In this case, nwhat you view as common sense was found to be incorrect.

8

DopeDetective t1_ix3zpdc wrote

no, i think it mostly says that if you are healthy & therefore genetically predispositioned for good sleep then you can still disrupt it by not following these 4 things

but if you are predispositioned for bad sleep then these 4 things probably won't help

"Study participants were healthy individuals aged 18–65 years, who were able to provide written informed consent. Exclusion criteria included ongoing inflammatory disease; cancer in the last three years (excluding skin cancer); long-term gastrointestinal disorders including irritable bowel disease or Celiac disease (gluten allergy), but not including irritable bowel syndrome; taking immunosuppressants or antibiotics as daily medication within the last three months; capillary glucose level of >12 mmol l–1 (or 216 mg dl–1), or type 1 diabetes mellitus, or taking medication for type 2 diabetes mellitus; currently experiencing acute clinically diagnosed depression; heart attack (myocardial infarction) or stroke in the last 6 months; pregnancy; and vegan or experiencing an eating disorder or unwilling to consume foods that are part of the study. "

4

odd-42 t1_ix3zyrc wrote

Are you saying that those people who were excluded were predisposed to poor sleep or predisposed to poor sleep because of underlying conditions which typically cause poor sleep?

2

DopeDetective t1_ix40v3h wrote

right they excluded a bunch of people who are genetically predisposed to poor sleep due to underlying conditions and then claimed there's no genetic relationship.

like if you cant eat high carb due to a genetic condition then you're never going to be able to meet those 4 requirements & therefore genetically predisposed to poor sleep.

2

odd-42 t1_ix44wau wrote

Ah, i think I see where we are not agreeing: I think they are saying that there is not a genetic factor for poor sleep that is “pure”. As in not secondary to other factors, but a primary genetic factor.

2

candykissnips t1_ix725yt wrote

Yep, you have been correct this entire time. This sub is sometimes insufferable.

2

narrill t1_ix5kj6n wrote

This is an incredibly weak argument. They excluded a number of conditions that can affect sleep quality, only some of which are exclusively genetic. And even then, "you're genetically predisposed to a condition that may affect your sleep quality" is a very different statement than "you're genetically predisposed to poor sleep," which is essentially what your initial comment of "I'm unhealthy but I still feel alert in the morning, therefore genetics" was saying.

1

DopeDetective t1_ix5u94a wrote

there's a gene that allows people to be fully rested after 4hrs. so clearly sleep quantity is influenced by genetics. circadian rythm is influenced by genetics.. theres just so much that is influenced by genetics that it just seems misleading to say there is no genetic connection the way they claim

0

narrill t1_ix67hkw wrote

> This study has to be wrong, it's just common sense

1

DopeDetective t1_ix8sjw4 wrote

the study says that alertness requires a high carb breakfast & glucose response. some people have a genetic predisposition that makes this impossible & these people were excluded from the study. what am I missing.

1

wigg1es t1_ix3aqvo wrote

I wake up the same way, but I've been in the same routine for so long I don't think I can actually say whether I'm in the best routine or not.

I do watch what I eat and am fairly active though.

2

DopeDetective t1_ix3b9ek wrote

I change up my sleeping routine somewhat often. I was previously doing 12-7 but now I'm doing 9-4 which I actually really enjoy for the peaceful alone time in the morning

might not have any relation but I only sleep on my back as well

1

InTheEndEntropyWins t1_ix3kky8 wrote

While you think you are bad, I suspect that many people are way worse when it comes to messing up their circadian rhythm.

2

DopeDetective t1_ix3lc4t wrote

well sure but they're saying there's no genetic component yet we know that sleep is strongly influenced by genetics & so is liver function such as diabetes and glucose response

0

InTheEndEntropyWins t1_ix3nueq wrote

> we know that sleep is strongly influenced by genetics

I'd argue that very little is genetic compared to environmental factors.

This study used identical twins, so they were able to control for the genetic factor and measure the impact of environment.

So, while they say there was no genetic component, I think was it means is the genetic component has no material impact compared to environment.

3

DopeDetective t1_ix3ogzc wrote

well for example, a person could eat well, exercise daily, and go to bed with time for 8hrs of sleep but if they have sleep apnea or insomnia (genetic conditions) theyre still not going to wakeup feeling rested.

on the other hand, there are people with a gene that allows them to only need 4hrs of sleep so they would be just fine staying up super late

people with diabetes (genetic) can't have high carb breakfasts and their glucose response doesn't work so they will never achieve all 4 of these important things & that's caused by genetics

3

InTheEndEntropyWins t1_ix3sog9 wrote

>well for example, a person could eat well, exercise daily, and go to bed with time for 8hrs of sleep but if they have sleep apnea or insomnia (genetic conditions) theyre still not going to wakeup feeling rested.

OK I agree there may be some people with genetic diseases, but I think they would be in the minority. I would also class type 2 diabetes and apnoea as primarily environmental issues, due to them being overweight/obese rather than purely being a genetics issue.

I think for most people the above is impossible. In that for the vast majority of people if they have a regular routine, exercise, get the right amount of light at the right time, etc. then they won't have insomnia.

4

DopeDetective t1_ix41g8p wrote

what about type 1 diabetes? type 2 diabetes is also genetic

i guess my issue is that they really only looked at healthy people. if you exclude a bunch of people who have a genetic predisposition then of course youre not going to find a genetic relationship

"Study participants were healthy individuals aged 18–65 years, who were able to provide written informed consent. Exclusion criteria included ongoing inflammatory disease; cancer in the last three years (excluding skin cancer); long-term gastrointestinal disorders including irritable bowel disease or Celiac disease (gluten allergy), but not including irritable bowel syndrome; taking immunosuppressants or antibiotics as daily medication within the last three months; capillary glucose level of >12 mmol l–1 (or 216 mg dl–1), or type 1 diabetes mellitus, or taking medication for type 2 diabetes mellitus; currently experiencing acute clinically diagnosed depression; heart attack (myocardial infarction) or stroke in the last 6 months; pregnancy; and vegan or experiencing an eating disorder or unwilling to consume foods that are part of the study. "

2