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TheManInTheShack t1_iutplya wrote

> CONCLUSIONS In this phase 2 trial involving participants with treatment-resistant depression, psilocybin at a single dose of 25 mg, but not 10 mg, reduced depression scores significantly more than a 1-mg dose over a period of 3 weeks but was associated with adverse effects. Larger and longer trials, including comparison with existing treatments, are required to determine the efficacy and safety of psilocybin for this disorder.

I’m surprised by this finding because the adverse effects listed don’t seem typical for recreational use.

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oldastheriver t1_iutrn5z wrote

oh really? I am active in the sub Reddit for psilocybin, and these side effects are very common. And it's also very common for people that are already diagnosed with major problem depression to experience suicidal ideation, because in order to get the diagnosis that's one of the necessary symptoms. So that aspect of it is a bit disingenuous but the headaches nausea etc. is the common reaction to a healthy dose

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SpaceObama t1_iuu0bru wrote

I wish this study differentiated between suicidal ideation and suicidal behaviours during the trip.

From my own experience, mindset and physical setting are hugely influential to a trip. I wonder what the setting was like. Alone in a university hospital clinic on psychedelics sounds horrifying. Alone in general is a bit intense. Ideally you need a good trusted friend, but I don’t know how to replicate that in a clinical setting.

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oldastheriver t1_iuu255j wrote

I had an interesting conversation with someone who was sexually molested by their father at the age of seven, basically they have suicidal ideation every day, and they are on prescription medication, the the best most effective whatever works. Yeah it's a big problem in this study. It's what I call jumping to conclusions

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SaltZookeepergame691 t1_iuvrynt wrote

Rates of suicidal ideation were low and similar between all groups. The only events of “severe” suicidal ideation were balanced across groups and happened after day 1. Data is in table 3.

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PickledPixels t1_iuv16by wrote

Anecdotally, I've eaten mushrooms dozens of times and I don't think I've ever had a suicidal ideation. I don't know what kind of atmosphere you would have to be in for that..

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oldastheriver t1_iuyielw wrote

I mean I would like to think that people that are suicidal every day, hence they have major depressive disorder, I would like to think that you know eating a mushroom would give them one day without those feelings. But it's more likely that it just opens a window, it may not even be an entire day, without depression.

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TwoHundredPlants t1_iuvym9v wrote

I haven't read this exact paper, but most psychedelic researchers have created a standard treatment protocol, usually two other adults in the room (a therapist/guide and/or researcher), and a calm environment (couches, blankets, low light, soothing music, headphones, plants, etc). I've read zero current research where someone is left alone or is in a standard bright clinic space.

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TheManInTheShack t1_iutrva2 wrote

Interesting. I’ve just never heard of side effects like that. Whenever it’s being discussed no one ever mentioned side effects (other than the possibility of having a bad trip).

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oldastheriver t1_iuu2j25 wrote

I think everybody's being pressured into accepting a scenario that's not real. I tried the psilocybin and was surprised at how sick I got, and it wasn't sickness before I was tripping but it was sickness during the trip. The sickness was coming on slow and the tripping was coming on fast and it was very unpleasant. And when I reported back to the group, everybody said yeah that's how it is. these symptoms are under reported, by the people that are extremely zealous and getting grant money.

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paranoidwerewolf t1_iuucx7w wrote

Also, saying that you tried “the psilocybin” makes you sound like a Narc.

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oldastheriver t1_iuuv3zb wrote

okay? Whats yur point?

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mauinion t1_iuxdrz0 wrote

Snitches get stitches

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oldastheriver t1_iuxxhi5 wrote

"It's just my little way of sticking it to the man" ... "but Sir, you are the man!" ... "well then It's just my little way of sticking it to myself"

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TheUsher t1_iuwd7ff wrote

For this reason, I am not trying shrooms, and I'm going with LSD instead. I don't need shroom side effects like gastro distress (got enough) or racing heart issues I saw as common. A friend told me LSD is much better and easier on your body. I'm sold.

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THP8 t1_iutsb3j wrote

doesn't add up to much i've heard

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[deleted] t1_iuuk97a wrote

[removed]

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Esta_noche t1_iuul7a5 wrote

No it's a very small dose. 25mg wouldn't even be a microdose. 1gram + is recreational

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SasakiShihairu t1_iuuj394 wrote

You're hearing alot more about micro-dosing for the benefits it has against Addiction and Depression. Certainly seems like a better alternative to some of the "remedies".

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mauinion t1_iuux7ce wrote

I can attest to that. I was a heavy binge drinker for 30 years. Mostly due to anxiety and depression. I think all of those compounded the effects on each other.

2 months ago, finally went to see a professional.

Tried about 4 kinds of meds. I hated all of them. I spent the last 3 weeks getting them out of my system.

This week started a microdosing routine, 20mg 4 days a week, then 3 days off.

I feel amazing! Zero desire to drink, anxiety is gone, no time for feeling depressed because for once I am clear headed, witty, motivated, and silly again.

I'm sold. The other remedies just made me feel flattened and numb. It was making it so I didn't care that I was depressed. I had lost any charm or humor that is part of my personality naturally.

I am super grateful for finally trying microdosing mushrooms.

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baklazhan t1_iuv0yfp wrote

I'm glad you found something that worked, but two months seems like a very short period of time to trial four (!) different meds.

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mauinion t1_iuw4fdp wrote

Indeed it was a short amount of time. I immediately didn't like the way it made me feel, and then reading about withdrawals, side effects, and weaning off them made it clear it wasn't the path I wanted.

I was better off with alcoholism, anxiety and depression.

The more I read about the medications, the more I realized that any perceived benefits above placebo were more than likely 'by chance' and not because the meds actually were designed to have the outcomes in trials that they had.

I really wanted something more natural, non invasive, and easy to put down. I tried THC / CBD and that was a fail as well. I had done mushrooms recreationally many years ago, but never considered them as medicine. It really is a major breakthrough for treatment IMHO

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baklazhan t1_iuxbmhb wrote

It's there a guide you use for dosing? What form do you consume the mushrooms in?

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mauinion t1_iuxc27f wrote

There is more than enough info on /r/microdosing

I use it in capsule form from a place in Canada. It has some other medicinal mushrooms in it too, like Lions Maine, etc. 20mg of psilocybin mushrooms per capsule.

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Deevo77 t1_iuv9uxp wrote

After being a heavy drinker and on various meds for anxiety and depression for decades, micro dosing has made such a difference.

No more SSRIs making me feel beige 24/7. Urge to drink is gone, still enjoy a tipple every now and then but the nightly craving for booze is history.

I find 150mg of dried shrooms (00 size capsule) every other day for a few weeks then a week off, boosted by a 3 or 4 gram "macro dose" every 6 months is fantastic.

Best of all you can grow them yourself!

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PracticalShoulder916 t1_iuvsg8r wrote

I also had benefits from microdosing. Sadly, in the UK, this is a schedule 1 drug which is crazy.

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Deevo77 t1_iuxksh6 wrote

Same here in Australia however the risks are outweighed by the reward and it's not like I'm distributing them, for personal use only. Strangely though, spore syringes are not illegal

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PracticalShoulder916 t1_iuxmd62 wrote

Yes, spores are legal here too. I think it's because the spores don't contain psilocybin. Need to get some for research purposes..

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yoda_jedi_council t1_iuvw47p wrote

My friend has had good experience so far with acid (never tried shrooms). I told him about microdosing and he's tried doing small doses every once in a while and it's been quite helpful.

What would be your advise and an example of schedules to someone who would considering microdosing as self-medication ?

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mauinion t1_iuw0ops wrote

There is plenty of good advice on /r/microdosing I started with 20mg 4 days on 3 days off. The Stamets method. It worked great for me straight out of the gate.

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bdyrck t1_ivgia19 wrote

You mean 200mg? And how do you take them? :)

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FwibbFwibb t1_iuwq7hv wrote

> You're hearing alot more about micro-dosing for the benefits it has against Addiction and Depression.

I'm not, actually. I've read that microdosing doesn't do anything. It doesn't even make sense, since you build up a tolerance to psilocybin very quickly.

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SasakiShihairu t1_iuxyiz9 wrote

"Does microdosing work? In short, the jury is still out. Some studiesindicate a very real and significant benefit from microdosing, whereasothers are much less convincing and show little to no benefit. One recent studyused a naturalistic, observational design to study 953 psilocybinmicrodosers compared with 180 nondosing participants for 30 days, andfound "small to medium-sized improvements in mood and mental health thatwere generally consistent across gender, age, and presence of mentalhealth concerns." This study and others like it appear to confirm many anecdotal reports of people who swear by the benefits they have experienced from microdosing." (Taken from https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-popularity-of-microdosing-of-psychedelics-what-does-the-science-say-202209192819) There isnt a definitive answer on it due to legal bars but you can look up any number of videos or articles about it having positive benefits. As for the tolerance... you're taking a very small amount and the treatment (I think, do not hold me on this) is every 2-3 weeks? It's recommended that you space out psilocybin trips (taking a normal tripping dose 1.5-3g) to atleast once a week/ every 2 weeks for the full effect.

Can't really tell someone that something doesn't work if it works for that person.

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GintamaFan_ItsAnime t1_iuusmga wrote

Damn, when can I get some, being from Florida?

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DfenselessOldLady t1_iuv2df0 wrote

Grow them. It’s easier than you think and you’ll have more mushrooms than you’ll know what to do with. I started growing my own to treat my depression and it’s helped tremendously, it’s also a fun hobby. Plus i sell to some friends or people I know so that’s extra money. I think everything to start up was around $300. You can make agar so you don’t have to keep buying spores and take prints to clone the pretty ones, it becomes almost self sustaining

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MsMyska t1_iuv42ps wrote

There are also a couple species that grow natively in Florida and can be foraged.

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DfenselessOldLady t1_iuyj0be wrote

I started foraging (in Louisiana where I live) for Cubensis and cyanescens and it was a lot of fun but if you’re gonna get caught with mushrooms it’s gonna be while you’re foraging most likely. Ask the person who’s land it is, I went under the guise of a mycology student looking for non active species and never had a problem

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FwibbFwibb t1_iuwqf39 wrote

> Grow them. It’s easier than you think

It's also illegal. You shouldn't be advocating for people to break the law.

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Spiritmolecule30 t1_iuwaate wrote

Nature provides! Start learning to forage in their habitat or grow them in a shoe box! Both are very easy.

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Spiritmolecule30 t1_iuwa5dx wrote

25mg is the equivalent of 2 to 2 1/2 grams of dried Psilocybe Cubensis. I wonder if they'll ever do trials on the effects of a "heroic" dose (+5grams). Those trips were way more beneficial to me than the 2g experiences.

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TelluricThread0 t1_iuypshk wrote

25mg of pure psilocybin is equivalent to 5 grams. Roland Griffiths, who does these sorts of trials at Johns Hopkins has specifically said they modeled the dosage off of what Terrence McKenna would call a heroic dose.

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