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Grunslik t1_iuloeju wrote

The paper that the article references (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm3233) does not single a bacterium out as the possible cause of colorectal cancer. The paper concludes "Indolimine-producing M. morganii caused increased intestinal permeability and exacerbated colon tumorigenesis in gnotobiotic mice. Overall, these studies imply an expanded role for microbiota-derived genotoxins in shaping host biology and disease susceptibility." The title of that summary article is misleading. It's possible that could be due to a translation error (what should be "... a possible cause ..." translated as "... the possible cause ...", but it's misleading nonetheless.

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[deleted] t1_iuludfh wrote

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[deleted] t1_ium07ui wrote

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Vosje11 t1_iumg7ac wrote

Can't you grab a scoop and just scoop all up acid in the tummy and let it reset?

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gamma9997 t1_iumk6l9 wrote

The microbiome is so complicated, that unfortunately there is really no "resetting" it. We can try (with fecal microbiome transplants), but in reality once it gets perturbed we can only hope that it returns to something close to normal. You've spent your whole life carefully cultivating this little ecosystem in your gut, if something comes along and wipes it out you have to start over.

It does make me wonder if we should be trying to store our own microbiomes when we get annual physicals so that if something happens during the year we can "reboot" the microbiome with a relatively recent batch.

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discretion t1_iuptiq0 wrote

Dang, that's a thing? I got really sick right when the pandemic started, for three weeks, before tests were available. I don't know if it was covid or not, but it was like the worst flu I've ever had, could barely keep fluid or food in me between diarrhea and vomiting. And after I got better, I had a really hard time handling foods I used to eat regularly. It really felt like my whole gut was just mollywhomped and I had to eat bread and rice for a while.

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IamreallynotaNPC t1_ium10jt wrote

There is a type of bacteria that eating beef causes to flourish and in turn that bacteria can create LDL. So it may not be the beef itself is bad for the heart but rather the microbiome that flourishes with consuming it.

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[deleted] t1_ium55ew wrote

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[deleted] t1_ium6uoa wrote

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greenhairvegan t1_iun1szw wrote

Saturated fat will increase LDL regardless of what bacteria you have, but bacteria that can raise LDL would also be bad for the heart.

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priceQQ t1_iumd5a1 wrote

Indolamines are not exactly toxins—they include some very interesting molecules (neurotransmitters). So it may just be natural metabolites of these gut bacteria.

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Old_Jellyfish_5327 t1_iuou0we wrote

Digestion is one of the most understudied areas of medicine. Out of all their classes, grad students in medicine spend 2 weeks studying digestion. That's it. Totally nuts, no? Nutritionists are pretty unregulated in the US, and drs that study the colon dont have a lot of tools that they use for diagnosis.

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Feralpudel t1_iupbq4p wrote

And it’s hard to imagine a more intricate yet chaotic system. It’s like this million mile heavily trafficked border crossing where it’s crucial to let the right things in and keep the wrong things out.

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whattheydontsay t1_iup2m80 wrote

1000% I was in ICU and asked my doctor if I should be eating a special diet. He said diet had nothing to do with it. I challenged him by asking if I could eat nothing but Taco Bell and he said sure, it will have no impact.

A book that became my go-to source, though it has a goofy title, is called Breaking The Vicious Cycle. It was written decades ago and still helped more than any doctor.

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cjwidd t1_iuloofy wrote

>Overall, these studies imply an expanded role for microbiota-derived genotoxins in shaping host biology and disease susceptibility.

I think this part doesn't fit the title very well, but it's basically the take-home message.

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PansexualEmoSwan t1_iup3k1h wrote

Considering how many other health problems can be traced back to gut permeability, that is the part that sticks out to me the most.

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Mr_Cripter t1_iumov11 wrote

Eating processed meats has been linked to increased risk of colorectal cancer too. I would be interested in research to find out if the food itself causes the risk, or whether eating the food skews the gut microbiome to select harmful bacteria instead

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Lord-Benjimus t1_iunky6f wrote

I'd be interested in this as well. It's like we know what gives cancer but not how or why it gives cancer. It's a big distinction for science, it's like how we know what the brain is, but not how consciousness works.

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SUMBWEDY t1_iuqav2k wrote

Iirc it's the food itself. A lot of preservation methods for meats (salting, smoking) cause high levels of nitrates and poly-cyclic amines that like to interact with cells.

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LessHorn t1_iumi1rf wrote

Someone already pointed out, a single bacteria isn’t behind colorectal cancer. But after discovering a lot of my health problems were caused by an untreated bacterial infection this type of reasoning makes sense. I hope we find better ways of detecting and treating bacterial diseases.

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Lonely-Cabinet7010 t1_iuphczl wrote

I think i might have a bacterial infection. Did you have any symptoms?

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LessHorn t1_iuqlsne wrote

Yes,

I had a lot of unexplainable symptoms that appeared sporadically.

Consistent symptoms: Mental and physical fatigue, brain fog, GI issues like constipation and bloating, moodiness due to fluctuating physical and mental abilities, fluctuating levels of anxiety, avoidance of social situations or tasks that would cause anxiety/frustration due to mental and physical fatigue, unexplained nerve pain that quickly subsided.

Irregular issues: Joint pain, acid reflux, nausea, rashes, other intermittent allergies, depressive symptoms (in my case my depressive symptoms were frustration due to the fatigue and also the inability to meet my own needs (cook food due to cognitive fatigue) and preferences (I was too tired to do good quality work or keep my house tidy).

Cognitively: Fluctuating ADHD type symptoms such as difficulty concentrating, low frustration threshold for tasks that require immediate or short term memory, changes in mental sharpness. Sensitivity to sound and light.

As the untreated infection progressed I had increasing neurological issues.

Complex issues: After I caught covid my sensory issues went through the roof. I had trouble with muscle coordination. I had nerve pain behind my eye after covid which. The nerve pain coincided with my worsening coordination.

It can look different on different people since everyone has different “weak spots” that a bacteria can attack. I fortunately wasn’t susceptible to progressive joint pain or allergies. Neurological and GI issues were my main issue.

All these symptoms can be caused by a Lyme infection. I can only share my personal experience. But I do I feel comfortable sharing that Lyme was behind a lot of my symptoms that didn’t get better from medication or lifestyle changes. I feel much better and sharper after antibiotics. At this point it’s too soon to tell if I have any underlying health issue, but I suspect I have ADHD that will need to be managed with lifestyle and other interventions.

(Sorry for any writing errors I’m on the run)

This is a simplification and not all health issues are caused by a bacterial infection. my goal with sharing this is to illustrate that infections have a complex expression of symptoms that don’t get better with intervention unless you treat the infection.

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DelusionalZ t1_iulr7en wrote

Doesn't this bacteria break down tryptophan into ammonia and other compounds? I recall seeing studies into how protein degradation (a common effect of ammonia at a molecular level) heightens the chance of cancer in the colon.

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Tender_Figs t1_iupbqk1 wrote

This is an interesting take that I wonder how nuanced it is in the wild population.

I personally have a hard time/immune response when I eat most carbohydrates. Stomach aches and skin reactions (probably candida or something else) as my skin begins to shed a lot more than normal…

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[deleted] t1_iun3ccm wrote

There are more pathways FROM the gut to the brain than otherwise. Nourishment is the key to life..

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ScienceOverNonsense t1_iup6l6x wrote

My guess about highly processed meat is that the preservatives damage the gut biome, causing an imbalance in favor of harmful bacteria and fungi.

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BrightAd306 t1_iuphiom wrote

It is interesting though because in the past, city people had access to meat we’d never eat today. Much of it was far past what we’d consider safe to eat and just flavored or boiled like crazy. It’s why ketchup was invented. It’s hard to imagine that was better than processed. Maybe it wasn’t, I guess people died a lot more from food poisoning back then so didn’t end up with cancer

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ScienceOverNonsense t1_iupms0b wrote

Exactly, it takes much longer for cancer to develop than food poisoning, and many people didn’t live long enough to get the cancers now commonly seen in many older people. Food processing has become more complex than traditional salting, smoking, drying, etc, with relatively new additives, both synthetic and “natural.” Cancer is not the only consequence from long term consumption of processed meat products. They are high in sodium, which can affect blood pressure, an important factor in many diseases of aging. High consumption of processed meat leaves less room in the diet for more beneficial foods, and they are often consumed with alcohol or other foods that are relatively unhealthy. People choosing this kind of diet are likely less knowledgeable about healthy eating and less likely to prioritize it and other healthy lifestyle practices.

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baconforthezombies t1_ium6p9n wrote

is it flesh eating bacteria? gut bacteria feeding off choline and carnitine converts TMA into TMAO so this would be 2/2 for those bastards

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