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Wild_Garlic t1_itplnjg wrote

The two big questions are:

  1. Is there rural internet infrastructure in place for remote work demands?

  2. Do rural communities share the same values those who work remotely hold?

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_AnecdotalEvidence_ t1_itpnep9 wrote

  1. No
  2. Probably not.
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myaberrantthoughts t1_itqfpve wrote

Until 2016 I used to support a regional contract in the midwest and had a number of employees and contractors who lived in very remote areas. About 1/6 were trying to download massive software updates and security patches with DSL, and would have to leave their computers on overnight to get downloads that would take the rest of us 5-10 minutes. I can't imagine running most telework or virtual education platforms using what is considered standard technology in those regions.

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Fearlessleader85 t1_itqrhks wrote

I'm 45 minutes from my state capital, and the best internet i have available is 15 down, 3 up for $90/mo. I tried satellite, but the latency was so bad, everything timed out. It was unusable.

The frustrating part is i can see houses that have fiber from my house, but it would cost me $30k+ to get it here.

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davidellis23 t1_itqzb1g wrote

I'd run an Ethernet cable to their router and pay them.

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Fearlessleader85 t1_itqziit wrote

That's about 3/4 of a mile of ethernet cable across fields that are in use. It would have to be buried or on poles.

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Zout t1_itr10gh wrote

You could do this with a wifi bridge using some good directional antennas. Might be illegal though depending on where you live.

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Fearlessleader85 t1_itr1crk wrote

Yeah, unfortunately, I'm not good enough friends with any of them to do that. Maybe someday...

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hypercube33 t1_iu1hf03 wrote

Find people with silos

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Fearlessleader85 t1_iu1iclj wrote

None within many miles of me. It's all feed corn or alfalfa here, and most of it is lease-farmed, so the landowners don't store it.

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ShadowDV t1_itr9jbz wrote

Siklu mmWave wireless... As long as you have line of sight, that stuff will reach miles with speed and latency of fiber. Cost a few thousand, but way cheaper than running fiber.

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socialistcabletech t1_itrxny5 wrote

Plus ethernet switches or repeaters of some sort that need their own power every 100 meters.

sauce

Single mode Fibre cable would work though.

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tutetibiimperes t1_itr2ydv wrote

Starlink may be the best option for you if it’s available in your area.

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Fearlessleader85 t1_itr35pt wrote

I saw it's in open trial here, but what type of latency does it have? I do work from home, so i need internet.

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SFXBTPD t1_itrnf7x wrote

My buddy can play multiplayer online videogames with it. His only complaint is it can take like half an hour to restart sometimes

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Fearlessleader85 t1_itro0qv wrote

The other internet i had couldn't even do Netflix. This one does better. If starlink was decent latency, i could possibly be convinced to switch.

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InfiniteJestV t1_itrothn wrote

I'm pretty sure it's consistent <100ms latency...

I may be misremembering, but around 70ms for avg. ping.

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Fearlessleader85 t1_itrqrsl wrote

That's not that bad. I was consistently 700+.

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socialistcabletech t1_itrx738 wrote

Starlink uses satellites in low earth orbit, much less latency than something like xplornet. Around 20ms according to their own website, googling around says 50ms or so.

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mdchaney t1_itqvmhc wrote

Starlink will really help a lot of that. In my area (middle TN) the electric utility has partnered with a telecom company to run fiber to their entire service area. That is opening up a lot of somewhat rural areas to gig up/down, which is a game-changer.

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hikehikebaby t1_itqkqf9 wrote

  1. No, for sure

  2. Often, yes. I think there is this image of people moving from very liberal cities to very conservative rural areas, but a lot of people just want to move a little further away from the city where they currently live. That's what I'm interested in - and what I did in the beginning on COVID. No huge cultural shift. Internet connectivity is the limiting factor. If I move as I am planning to do then I will still be able to drive into work as needed.

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GD_Bats t1_itr8jet wrote

Ok post over, someone get the lights

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mugatu1994 t1_itq4cg2 wrote

  1. Some 'remote work' may still require you to live near enough a corporate office even if you don't go in.
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obamanisha t1_itqawtg wrote

Employers being registered in certain states is a big deal.

I went to college in Boston and graduated in 2020 so getting a job was awful. I had to move home to rural Ohio due to the Boston COL. There were plenty of employers who were condescending about me being in a rural area for the time. Once I got past those, there were some that needed me back ASAP (job was remote at first, then in more final interviews, they would reveal that they actually wanted me in the office for a few days per week.)

For one employer, I got down to signing my contract and they realized that I didn’t have an MA address anymore. The recruiter didn’t even realize that I had to be in MA, and there was no way they could register in Ohio in a timely manner. They weren’t even back in the office at this time. I had to confess that there’s no way I could get the funds to move back that soon and I lost the offer. The job I ended up getting was better, but this was not a great feeling either. Sometimes remote work isn’t as clean cut as it seems.

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brownhotdogwater t1_itqmovz wrote

The state thing is important. There is a bunch of HR and legal stuff for taxes and payroll. If the company has not going though the trouble of setting up in a specific state they might not want to hire you.

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mugatu1994 t1_itqc2qy wrote

Luckily my work has an office where I wanted to be. But if I hadn't wanted one of a handful of major cities it wouldn't have worked.

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BisquickNinja t1_itt1ahr wrote

This is me. I do some manufacturing and I must go in when needed.

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[deleted] t1_itptlj8 wrote

[removed]

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TropFemme t1_itpxrjw wrote

Saaaaaame I grew up in a cute little small town that I absolutely could not raise children in for fear of being clobbered by a Nazi at a school board meeting.

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usernametaken0987 t1_itqhsil wrote

That's just what they want you to believe.

For example, in the USA Louisiana has the highest murder rate by state. Quick Google for example. 18% (33) of the 177 murders occurred in rural counties.

Alabama has the second highest of states, Source, 21% (8) of the 38 murders occurred in rural areas.

And here is a World population source which mentions that of all five highest, it's due to their urban areas.

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Skeptix_907 t1_itq3yb8 wrote

>The problem is that the people already living in those places feel comfortable advocating for mass killings of people like me while making small talk at the grocery checkout

Definitely not being melodramatic here.

I've lived in plenty of small towns and lots of my friends were LGBT and minority/immigrant (even one illegal immigrant). Not once did I see or hear anyone calling for mass killings. I frankly think you're just lying.

People voting for a local Republican for state house does not, believe it or not, equate to what you're saying.

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MiaowaraShiro t1_itqdj57 wrote

Part of living with other people is trusting that their experiences are valid.

Assuming someone's lying simply because your experience is different is incredibly poor thinking, and kinda self centered...

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tkdyo t1_itqbbhr wrote

Man, it's really sad how you guys always have to make up these hypothetical to try and downplay what the party has become. In very few instances is the person voting R for the state rep not also voting R for every candidate.

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Skeptix_907 t1_itqn1im wrote

And the vast majority of those people aren't anywhere near political as the average reddit user.

I'm a two time Bernie voter. I have MANY friends who voted for Trump, and the only reason I know they voted for him is because I've seen them post stuff on facebook. Otherwise I'd have no idea. Doesn't make them terrible people in my personal experience, and we have shared hobbies that we like.

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seridos t1_itqhi7j wrote

Voting GOP is being complicit though.

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darkpaladin t1_itpnyep wrote

I think what we're gonna find out long term is that people just like living in cities. Let's say moving to the country nets you 20k in additional disposable income. That sounds great as a millennial until you realize there's nothing to spend it on. Also your only grocery choice is Walmart. Also in storms your power goes out for days instead of hours. Also any repair you need takes longer and has transportation costs added on, assuming you can even find a professional.

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TootsNYC t1_itpr8mp wrote

I grew up in a small rural town. My parents deliberately retired to a city because my mom wanted to be closer to health care services as she aged. (I had cancer as a kid, and we had to go to a city for treatment, which meant hotel stays, etc)

And she wanted to be able to call a taxi to go to the doctor when they got too frail to drive, instead of having to rely on the kindness of her neighbors

It’s not just young people who prefer cities

The big problem is that intermediate cities are shrinking

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darkpaladin t1_itps95m wrote

That could be a happy middle ground, try and offload from major cities to smaller cities until the cost of living balances out.

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Chroderos t1_itqx2ui wrote

College towns are what you are looking for.

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therapist122 t1_itrc6yg wrote

Yep walkability and public transit are godsends for the disabled and elderly. Let's you have independence. It doesn't have to be just cities, suburbs could be this way too but we build everything for car dependency.

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Wild_Garlic t1_itpoe90 wrote

Many of those things you mentioned have solutions but would require a pretty dramatic policy change in the United States. I wonder how applicable those scenarios are in other countries.

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darkpaladin t1_itpp2vs wrote

The sheer amount of infrastructure required makes it near impossible to address at scale. Problems like this are why cities exist in the first place. By the time you add enough amenities to make a place appealing to live, you'll have driven the cost of housing up enough that is not financially attractive anymore.

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Wild_Garlic t1_itps5cn wrote

I mean...it was done with other utilities.

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darkpaladin t1_itpsudc wrote

Yes and no. Sure these houses have power and phone lines but both are flakey and outages last a long time because they're low priority for repair. You could add internet to that but remote workers can't just disappear for 3-5 days cause a storm rolled through last night. Even then, food and entertainment options are severely lacking.

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sanciscoyo t1_itpv21e wrote

Where specifically are you referring to in the US that power and telephone lines are flaky and low priority for repair? This is kind of ridiculous, and I think you’re partially making up a problem in your head. Maybe there’s a few isolated individuals where that is the case, but it would literally only be a few thousand people

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darkpaladin t1_itpzgmm wrote

People I know in rural Texas and my extended family that comes from rural Illinois.

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QuickComplaint9 t1_itqh3ag wrote

That's because Texas privatized their electricity. AKA instead of being a government run service, they sold out to private companies who care only about profits.

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dirtyploy t1_itqkia5 wrote

And Illinois? I have seen similar issues in rural Michigan, friends in rural Virginia, and family in rural Florida

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blahblahsnickers t1_itsawj9 wrote

I am in Virginia and not even urban and still lost electricity for a week this past winter.

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TheGeneGeena t1_itqke44 wrote

It's very rare that it happens here, but we've had ice storms take out power for a week. The last time I remember it going out that long here was over a decade ago though (Arkansas), but Oklahoma had parts that went out close to that a couple of years ago.

The power companies here have done a lot of work burying their lines where they can. A lot of power lines can't be buried in parts the country for various geological reasons though, so outages are always a risk.

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QuickComplaint9 t1_itqgv1o wrote

You can live in a city and still work remote. Being in a city doesn't mean you should be forced to sit in an open box with dozens of people yapping at once under fluorescent lighting.

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Ratnix t1_itqek8j wrote

> Also any repair you need takes longer and has transportation costs added on, assuming you can even find a professional.

That's going to depend on how rural you are.

I live in a rural area. I found a hole in my main drain pipe Saturday. I called a plumber and he was there in less than an hour and had it fixed up in a jiffy. I've never had problems getting a professional out for anything.

Rural doesn't mean living hours away from any town.

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AggravatedBox t1_itqkow9 wrote

It’s exactly this. I live in a small town in the Deep South and have a remote job. I’m not planning on moving to a huge city by any means, but I am moving to a more mid-sized town so that I have access to a Trader Joe’s, Target, an airport, bigger hospital, etc. Right now, all of those things are an hour drive from me. My neighbor recently had a baby and the nearest L&D was a 45 minute drive. Sure, my money stretches farther here but it’s at significant cost to my quality of life.

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Randomfactoid42 t1_itr4mec wrote

Actually living in the county can easily eat up your hypothetical $20k pretty quick. You have to drive lots of miles every week for things. You probably have a bit of land, so you'll need more than a little mower. Your doctor is now 20-50 miles away, depending on type of doctor. In some areas, there's not a lot of professionals, so you're on your own for plumbing, home repairs, etc. So, yes, the house is very affordable, but you can rack up some expenses pretty quick.

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MiaowaraShiro t1_itqdyde wrote

A lot of that is fixable with modern technology like solar power, backup generators and satellite/cellular communications.

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LongWalk86 t1_itq2yus wrote

So you save an extra 20k, which is nice, but there is nothing to spend it on, except the more expensive repairs and generator? What is it you were hoping to spend your money on that the country isn't providing? This really just sounds like living in the country doesn't personally appeal to you, so it's just dumb. Have you ever lived in the country? Yes the hobbies and past times are different, the community smaller, but there really is not less to do or to spend your money on.

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davidellis23 t1_itqdhzd wrote

I imagine there's less (and lower quality) stuff like ethnic food, concerts (especially niche music like kpop), plays, comedy shows, bouldering gyms, conventions, niche meetups, karaoke bars, universities, escape rooms, vr arcades, acro yoga, museums, niche sports courts, hot air balloons, amateur sports leagues/tournaments.

I know rural areas have tons of nature activities. Urbanites usually aren't that interested in hunting/fishing. We hike sometimes. paint ball and parasailing may draw urbanites.

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Chroderos t1_itqy4ao wrote

I grew up rural and live in a smallish rural town / small city (With some basic amenities and good internet) after having lived in a major city for a few years. With so much entertainment now being piped directly to our houses, the only thing I really miss is that we have no affordable public racquetball courts. A 5 minute commute to work and being able to live like a king in a low CoL area definitely make up for that.

Sometimes I miss the city, but if I’m honest with myself, I’m too busy to engage in most of those things you mention more than a few times per year, during which time I’ll just go vacation or visit a large city. Same complaint from my family members who currently live in a large city: all kinds of offerings available, but no time or money to attend them. That being said, I’d love to retire to a big city when I actually have time and excess money to take advantage of what they have to offer.

The biggest drawbacks to living in the area are that you can get yourself in a lot of trouble with services if you leave the town. Got locked out of my car in a tiny nearby village and nearly had to smash a window in because there was literally no one available to open it for me.

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LongWalk86 t1_itqhiax wrote

So your argument is that the rural environment doesn't lend itself to the things YOU like to do. I was responding to a comment that claimed "people just like living in cities", as if this was some near universal truth, when that is far from the case.

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davidellis23 t1_itqm2g1 wrote

I was answering this question: "What is it you were hoping to spend your money on that the country isn't providing?"

But, i do suspect there is objectively less to do and spend your money on if we could figure out a way to quantify it.

Definitely not everyone wants to live in a city. But I think oc was about people who already live in cities. I suspect most people in cities aren't looking to move to the country side. Maybe to the suburbs or smaller cities. I think some urbanites romanticize country life, but the reality wouldn't agree with them.

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QuickComplaint9 t1_itqhgkn wrote

None of those activities sound appealing to me except museums. And how often do you realistically visit a museum? Maybe once every three years?

Also have you been to a rural area? Not sure what you consider "ethnic food" but most rural areas in the US have authentic Mexican food at the very least. Is that not "exotic" enough for you?

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dirtyploy t1_itql2fq wrote

Indian, Korean, Thai, I could name a ton I wish was in my area.

Having a single Mexican restaurant isn't "exotic." Just cuz it is authentic doesn't mean they do a good job at it...

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Turdulator t1_itqnzto wrote

Dining options are by far the worst part of rural living (I’ve done both)…. In a decent city you can have Thai for lunch and Ethiopian for dinner, then the next day Mexican and Japanese, then Russian and Peruvian… then Vietnamese and Brazilian ….. then Italian and Hawaiian ….. and that’s just one work week, you can do a whole different set of options the following week. In a small rural town there’s like 3-4 sit down restaurants total, and you just have to rotate those three constantly or drive an hour to the next town over for a slightly different group of 3-4 sit down spots.

For example, today on my lunch break I have eight different sit down restaurants to choose from that I can walk to from my office (Japanese sushi, thai, middle eastern, deli sandwiches, Japanese Ramen, Chinese, Mexican, Italian)…. And that’s close enough to walk there, eat, and come back all within an hour break….. if I’m willing to drive that number becomes like 30+ options. That’s just impossible anywhere rural.

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cst-rdt t1_itqkdn4 wrote

> None of those activities sound appealing to me except museums.

You may not like those things, but many other people do.

> And how often do you realistically visit a museum? Maybe once every three years?

I go to a museum at least once a month, though I do travel extensively so I have more incentive to do so.

> most rural areas in the US have authentic Mexican food at the very least

As a person who has spent a substantial amount of time in both Mexico and rural areas of the United States, I think you and I may have different definitions of "authentic."

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BasicReputations t1_itq8dyr wrote

They never priced out a couple of side-by-sides and a toy trailer....

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cas13f t1_itqsy1j wrote

For real, people live in single-wides but own like $300k in recreational vehicles of all kinds.

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LongWalk86 t1_itqg7of wrote

Or a horses, or hobby farming, or starting and orchard. It's just a different lifestyle and the urban dwellers of Reddit are just as oblivious to it as most rednecks are to the appeal of a modern art museum.

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therapist122 t1_itrcg6d wrote

Come on. There's less stuff, by definition there's less stuff to do. It's quiet and peaceful. But if you don't like quiet and peaceful 24/7 then you have to go somewhere else

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LongWalk86 t1_itrl0qe wrote

I guess I'll have to break it to the guys down the street with the motocross dirt track and large gun range that there is just nothing to do out here but enjoy the peace and quiet. I know, I'll just ride my quad over there through the miles of trails in the state forest behind us and tell him. So quiet and boring...

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hamsterwheel t1_itqjujp wrote

So you're saying avocado toast really is contributing to gen Z poverty

0

projecthouse t1_itqf474 wrote

There's also a ton of legal issues involved, especially with respect to hiring people in other countries (as this article talks about).

A few years ago, I found out how many rules there were just to import goods. Don't fill out this form before you stuffs on the boat, that's a big fine. Don't have this paperwork, your goods are destroyed by customs and you get fined. Goods don't meet specs, good luck dealing with that in a Chinese court.

I can't image how many freaking rules there must be if you hire employees or even contractors in another country.

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UseOnlyLurk t1_itqqxa6 wrote

Also factor in the complexity of two people in a relationship and their ability to relocate to a rural area:

  • They both have to have fully remote positions.
  • They both have to be in agreement to move to a rural area.

Add children into the mix and that’s a potential solid 12+ years of inability to relocate.

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Wild_Garlic t1_itqrlvx wrote

That's a good point but I see home saleability as a bigger issue for relocation than having kids.

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UseOnlyLurk t1_itquqem wrote

Has the housing market slowed? It was hot pancakes this time last year.

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TheGeneGeena t1_itr3fid wrote

I think it's cooled in areas at least due to the interest rate increases.

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QuietFridays t1_itr3kmj wrote

Yeah with interest rates rising so fast housing has definitely cooled off

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Immortal_Tuttle t1_itqiqku wrote

As for 1 - it depends where you live. There is 2Gbit fiber available where I live (rural, outskirts of the 4k people town) and it delivers advertised speed.

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bufordt t1_ittekl8 wrote

Yeah, my mom is 20 miles outside of a 3000 person town. She pays $50/month for 200mbps (Gbit is available). That's less than I pay in Minneapolis. Internet availability and pricing makes zero sense.

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free-advice t1_itri7jc wrote

In my case, 1 is a definite "yes" and 2 is a definite "not for me". I live in a town of about 1000 in rural Texas and have had fiber to the home for about 10 years - thanks, that is, to rural telephone cooperative, aka socialism.

I have been able to do software consulting and run an internet business from a town where I have real roots. But the last 6 years of Trump have been...difficult. Our youngest kids graduate this year and we will probably keep the homestead but buy a condo in the city and spend most of our time there.

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phdoofus t1_itr1lhn wrote

Do people from rural communities who went to school and now work in cities share urban values?

Why the assumption that rural communities are seeing an influx of people with 'different values'? Montana is seeing lots of influx from Texas and Utah, probably more so than California, and even the latter has a lot of conservative to it.

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gramie t1_itqg7lh wrote

The last time I checked, the province of Quebec was on track to have fiber available to every home in the province. It's possible that doesn't include the very remote communities, but I know that even small towns in the south have it rolled out and are finishing up the final connections.

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Dekarch t1_itrvrsm wrote

Let me throw another log on that fire:

Do rural areas typically have the quality of schoole that an educated professional wants for their children?

The answer is Definitely Not. That eliminates any remote workers with kids from moving out to West Nowhere, Alabama.

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swampscientist t1_ituah3h wrote

Yes they definitely can.

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Dekarch t1_itunc2f wrote

Can.

In theory.

But do they generally have those schools?

I considered this because I could have sold my house last year and bought 10 acres in a rural nowheresville here in Texas, but then I looked at the school system and it was a hard No.

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dw444 t1_itq32ny wrote

1 is trivial. 2 would be more of a problem.

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Kurotan t1_itr1atv wrote

My grandmother that's not even that far out can't get better then like 1mb speeds no matter which service she uses out on her farm. Literally halfway between Omaha and Lincoln NE.

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MpVpRb t1_itr1xg9 wrote

  1. No
  2. As infrastructure improves and remote work is perfected, many will choose rural areas. As diverse people enter, the areas will change
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AnakinsTauntaun t1_itt60nh wrote

My folks live in BFE 20 miles from a town and have fiberoptic, the 7k or so population city limit ends at my property line and i have to hotspot from my phone

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derpderpdonkeypunch t1_itqstd8 wrote

> Do rural communities share the same values those who work remotely hold?

Who cares? Rural communities are largely less wealthy and more conservative. Changing that is good.

0

Skeptix_907 t1_itq3i3q wrote

>Do rural communities share the same values those who work remotely hold?

Believe it or not, you can live in a place where a majority of people don't share political values with you.

I know, it's crazy, but it's true.

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rushmc1 t1_itq3ydf wrote

And you'll be utterly miserable doing so.

Source: Live in Mississippi.

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tacmac10 t1_itqtkj0 wrote

Can verify, live in rural kansas and hate it.

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Skeptix_907 t1_itq45q2 wrote

I did it for 22 years. Lived in a deep red state as a democratic socialist. If you don't make national politics your entire personality you'll be fine.

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Sands43 t1_itqiuaz wrote

I've lived in typically liberal areas and "conservatives" areas.

I like having good roads, good schools, functioning public servants, decent recreational choices, good retail selections, etc.

Those are a LOT harder to find in "conservative" areas.

"Conservative" - today's GOP is NOT conforming to the traditional definition of conservative. They have no interest in simply slowing down progress and asking hard fiscal questions. Green is the prototype GOP poll, which is more like a political Kardashian than a public servant.

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Skeptix_907 t1_itqmh85 wrote

I'm not talking about conservative vs liberal. Both places have merits.

I'm saying that you can live in a place that is 60% one or the other without getting into fights over politics.

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davidellis23 t1_itqeohy wrote

You can but i think it can be harder.

I think it would be tough to live in a homophobic or racist community if you're one of the target groups.

If you're not in a target group I think it can still be harder to make friends.

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Rich6849 t1_itqmshq wrote

  1. Starlink solves the bandwidth problem. We have been working from our travel trailer
  2. Rural communities support hard work. As long as you put in the hours for the paycheck they respect you. If you get your money from fake disability or food stamps they will look down on you.
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