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1

Wagamaga OP t1_jbppl4f wrote

A team of climate scientists from France, Russia and Germany has found that ancient viruses dormant for tens of thousands of years in permafrost can infect modern amoeba when they are revived. For their study, reported on the open-access site Viruses, the group collected several giant virus specimens from permafrost in Siberia and tested them to see if they could still infect modern creatures.

Prior research has shown that permafrost—frozen soil—is an excellent preservative. Many carcasses of frozen extinct animals have been extracted from permafrost in the Northern Hemisphere. Prior research has also shown that plant seeds lying dormant in permafrost can be coaxed to grow once revived. And there is evidence suggesting that viruses and bacteria trapped in permafrost could infect hosts if revived. In this new effort, the researchers tested this theory.

The effort by the research team followed up on prior work in 2014 that showed a 30,000-year-old virus could be revived—and that it could be infectious. The team followed up on that effort by reviving a different virus in 2015 and allowing it to infect an amoeba. In this new effort, the team collected several virus specimens from multiple permafrost sites across Siberia for lab testing.

For safety reasons, the research team collects only so-called giant viruses and only those that can infect amoeba, not humans or any other creature. In reviving the virus samples, the team found that they were still capable of infecting amoeba. They also found, via radiocarbon dating of the permafrost in which they were found, that the viruses had been in a dormant state for between 27,000 and 48,500 years

https://phys.org/news/2023-03-ancient-dormant-viruses-permafrost-revived.html

82

EnergizingBolt t1_jbptv3i wrote

That is extremely concerning, we will have to be 100% cautious while handling these ancient viruses, it's crazy how a virus can put itself to deep sleep for over 20,000 years.

18

mgill2500 t1_jbq7qkw wrote

One can only hope. If we truly care about the planet. Theres a huge community of parasites destroying her. Humans

−5

High-Scorer-001 t1_jbq8ebc wrote

It's okay, we know how to handle viruses now. So if another pathogen starts spreading, we'll all do what's scientifically proven to stop its spread and won't engage in nonsense conspiracy theories or engage in behaviour that will harm ourselves or our loved ones...right?

315

[deleted] t1_jbqa9fq wrote

Oh, it’s going to happen, no doubts about that, do we really care as a humanity at this point?

35

28nov2022 t1_jbqaool wrote

I read this article that said as the climate warms up, more species will be forced to migrate northward, out of their natural habitats, come into contact with human territory, leading to more frequent zoonotic transfers, so likely pandemics will become more frequent. As well as deadlier, as virus adapt to warmer temperatures making fevers less effective.

6

wsclose t1_jbqucpm wrote

For anyone worried about Scientists reviving a virus should know that Amoebas do not share any viruses with animals and humans because of their extremely large evolutionary distance.

56

joxeloj t1_jbqwlcb wrote

I'm EXTREMELY skeptical this is a meaningful risk. Viruses infecting single cell organisms are extremely abundant in the environment but do not pose a threat to humans.

Viruses that infect humans or even mammals immensely less abundant, so very few if any will stand a chance of being preserved in this manner. It seems astronomically unlikely they would then make it back into a living host in sufficient numbers while still viable to achieve a productive infection. I imagine an infected carcass would have to freeze very quickly for viable viruses to be preserved, and then be consumed in large amounts fairly quickly to infect something.

Even if they did, they'd be less likely to achieve subsequent transmission relative to current viruses in active circulation and no more likely to be lethal/highly pathogenic. This just reads like a scary sentence you put at the ending of a basic microbiology paper to garner media coverage and win career points.

8

Morbo_Kang_Kodos t1_jbqx8hs wrote

One way or another, we will definitely go the way of the dinosaurs, and probably way sooner than everyone thinks

14

16billionDeadEyes t1_jbqywzx wrote

Even worse than that. Not only is there the threat of them infecting humans, but infecting other species is just as dangerous. From ecological health, to food production for humans, a bunch of unknown viruses being unleashed could be devastating to humanity without ever even infecting humanity.

35

JustPlainJaneToday t1_jbqz7s3 wrote

Seems like the bigger concern than any climate change releasing viruses is premature thawing of them!

0

Binsky89 t1_jbqzpyb wrote

Replying to Wagamaga (#2,203,128)

None of that suggests that melting permafrost poses a risk of viruses re-emerging.

I don't know what's involved in 'reviving' a virus, but it sounds like human intervention is required for it to happen.

25

Darwins_Dog t1_jbr1h9v wrote

Replying to Binsky89 (#2,205,379)

The only intervention was they had to isolate the viruses in order to be sure that they were the cause of infections in the amoeba cultures. That's what they mean by reviving. They isolated it, infected cells, which then infected other cells.

Most viruses don't have to be isolated to become infectious, and some are pretty good at crossing species.

64

merchant_of_mirrors t1_jbr8pj9 wrote

Replying to joxeloj (#2,205,218)

except that they've already found both virus and bacteria that were viable, so its not theory. As the permafrost melts, the likelihood of one emerging that can infect humans goes up, and as the area warms, you'll have more people living there and potentially becoming exposed to these pathogens.

2

Binsky89 t1_jbrbxt2 wrote

Replying to Darwins_Dog (#2,205,459)

That definitely changes things then.

I still have to wonder why the author chose to use the term revive in the context of a thing that wasn't alive in the first place (unless things have changed since my biology course in 08). I feel like thawing would be a much more accurate descriptor of the process.

4

metalmaxilla t1_jbrckv4 wrote

Replying to Binsky89 (#2,205,379)

Viruses themselves are not "alive". They exploit a living organism's machinery to cause the infection and have a way to replicate/spread. They simply have to come into contact with another organism with the right door they can get through. So if permafrost melts, it exposes the virus to either wind or water as a mode of transportation to get to living organisms... another way is the melting of its shield allows nearby organisms to come into contact with it.

Sounds like human intervention was needed to isolate samples and prove the hypothesis.

18

Rustydustyscavenger t1_jbrdfzn wrote

I mean these are viruses that have never encountered any kind of antibiotic or any kind of medicine i assume they could be wiped out fairly easily

−2

metalmaxilla t1_jbrdhts wrote

Replying to joxeloj (#2,205,218)

One of the examples that's always pondered is smallpox. If infected bodies buried in permafrost become exposed, could smallpox create an outbreak now that vaccination is no longer routine? A Russian group investigated this in the 1990s but the virus particles were too broken up to cause an infection. Still makes you wonder about the possibility if there was a specimen preserved just right or happened to still have intact and virulent virus.

5

metalmaxilla t1_jbriu02 wrote

Replying to Binsky89 (#2,206,089)

It's a key nuance at the basis of the hypothesis that suggests there is a risk of re-emergence without deliberate intervention.

If melting permafrost uncovered intact virus, enabling a susceptible host to be exposed, then infection could theoretically happen.

That is the basis of the epidemiology triad of agent-host-environment.

7

NotMrBuncat t1_jbrn28f wrote

clickvait headline. It's very unlikely that there will be a virus in the permafrost that would pop out ready to be the next pandemic. Thats just not how viruses work. They're far too specialized.

−1

ColeWRS t1_jbrqngm wrote

This is very interesting, but only time will tell. There are many viruses that infect other microbes and I think those would be more common to be preserved in permafrost compared to a human pathogen. We have learned a lot and made significant advancements in pandemic response and disease surveillance and control.

1

217EBroadwayApt4E t1_jbrt3j6 wrote

Well, if COVID taught us anything it’s that people will remain calm, listen to the science, and act with the good of everyone in mind.

Lolol.

14

The_Moofia t1_jbru559 wrote

Nature has a way of culling itself, right?

1

YouAreGenuinelyDumb t1_jbrv60s wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,206,632)

There are many indirect risks, but the extent of the risk is pretty much unknowable. Maybe the vast majority of these viruses are degraded and no longer viable. Perhaps some were obsoleted by the evolution of more competitive relatives or stronger host immune systems. Perhaps the vectors and hosts are extinct and the virus has no means to naturally replicate. Maybe the one virus that manages to breakout is enough to do serious damage to the environment and society. Or maybe there are thousands of different catastrophes waiting to thaw from the ice.

4

UniverseBear t1_jbrwypz wrote

Global warming: "have you ever had Mammoth aids?...do you wanna?"

0

S_A_N_D_ t1_jbrx7vt wrote

Replying to metalmaxilla (#2,205,995)

Viruses equally rely on their host for binding, cell entry, and replication.

The further we get from these viruses time wise, the less efficient it will likely be at the above.

I really hate these scare articles because there is very little to suggest these viruses actually pose a risk. There is however real risk from organisms that are currently co-evolving their virulence in tandem with us right now.

11

Yawndr t1_jbrz6zi wrote

Isn't that something we've known for quite some time? Even some fiction books are about that.

1

Affectionate-Goat896 t1_jbs6fid wrote

Well it's a more plausible excuse than blaming bats.

Still though, shouldn't we have some inherited immunity for most of these historical pathogens?

−1

TwistingEarth t1_jbs76qy wrote

Sounds more like fear mongering, and less like science.

−4

DragonDai t1_jbsa8jj wrote

There is a concept called the Fermi Paradox that posits a Great Filter. Their is no doubt in my mind that the upcoming capitalism-caused climate collapse is that great filter.

9

Responsible-Laugh590 t1_jbsgxsh wrote

I have a feeling that these viruses will be out competed by current virus strains that have evolved to counter modern mammalian antibodies rather then being actually dangerous. But who knows be careful regardless.

1

KittenKoder t1_jbsl570 wrote

As bad as we handled COVID, a prehistoric COVID will destroy us.

1

TB3Der t1_jbsn5m0 wrote

Especially once Fauci and friends get ahold of it and start gof research on them…..

−4

ErraticUnit t1_jbsq06q wrote

I'm not sure the whether something can infect humans or not is the bigger problem here...

1

bittyboyben t1_jbsr22j wrote

Replying to jack821 (#2,206,379)

Individuals and small groups (relatively) seem to care about stopping that.

But humanity in general, on the grand scale, counterintuitively seems to very much not care about that and continue to do things that will inevitably cause more suffering than necessary.

1

SpecterGT260 t1_jbss817 wrote

Replying to Wagamaga (#2,203,128)

Permafrost always reminds me of how broken the education system can be. Specifically because when in elementary school our teacher was describing it as "ground that has gotten so cold it can never unfreeze". I pressed, as a 3rd grader and asked if someone took a scoop of it and took it to the desert if it would remain frozen. She was adamant that, yes, it would remain frozen. I didn't ask her what would happen if we hurled it into the sun, but I'm curious what she would have said. For some reason I've never forgotten this exchange and it makes me think that maybe we should have people who know the material teaching and not people who have an advanced degree in babysitting.

40

[deleted] t1_jbsshcr wrote

Let’s test them all in a lab in China. Should be fine.

1

FallCheetah7373 t1_jbsxtpu wrote

Replying to Binsky89 (#2,205,958)

yeah viruses are neither alive nor dead since the last time I dug deeper into the rabbit hole like 6 months ago it was a spiralling into the same answer over and over as per the top google posts and other html pages

2

danielravennest t1_jbt7cn8 wrote

Replying to sagitt12 (#2,208,467)

It would give you a nasty burn, same as the heating element on a stove burner or toaster, which are about the same temperature.

The correct answer is "don't stand close to volcanic eruptions" because they can kill you in several ways (poison gases, heat, rock falls, etc.)

3

Morlik t1_jbt85u0 wrote

Replying to Binsky89 (#2,205,958)

Revive doesn't necessarily refer to life or being alive. From Webster:

1 : to restore to consciousness or life

2 : to restore from a depressed, inactive, or unused state : bring back

3 : to renew in the mind or memory

5

danielravennest t1_jbt9nfl wrote

Replying to DragonDai (#2,207,266)

I would doubt it. That same capitalism is massively increasing solar panel production because there is a buck (or Chines Yuan since most of them are made there) to be made:

>"According to the Silicon Industry Branch, China’s silicon material production capacity will reach 2.4 million tons in 2023, double that of last year." Source

Silicon being the material solar cells are made of. It takes about 2 grams per Watt to make the cells. So that much capacity theoretically could supply 1200 GW of solar per year, or 240 GW of nuclear plant output equivalent. World nuclear capacity is ~400 GW. So you would be adding 60% of that every year. That's a whole lot of clean power.

−2

Spinalstreamer407 t1_jbtigre wrote

Climate change can expose us to things we have never seen or experienced before or even thought about. Being safe and secure may become a problem and these diseases will be lurking around our front doormat to the point where our house may not provide the kind of sanctuary we are used to. Are you prepared?

1

zyl0x t1_jbtlbab wrote

Replying to Binsky89 (#2,205,379)

Viruses aren't even "alive" in the traditional sense outside of a host. They are inert until they come into contact with living cells. So presuming their cellular structure survived the freezing process itself, there's nothing special that needs to be done to "revive" frozen viruses besides introducing them to a host.

1

SoftwarePatient5050 t1_jbtzgom wrote

It's also entirely possible that none of these viruses end up being capable of infecting humans.

1

SpecterGT260 t1_jbtzony wrote

Replying to Maverick0984 (#2,209,454)

It wasn't the only example. I had teachers in almost every grade that didn't know their own material and made very basic errors.

Had one tell us in middle school (geometry) that light reflects off a mirror always at a right angle. He also stuck to his guns on this until I asked him what would happen if you looked straight into a mirror and then moved 1 inch to the right. Would you be staring at the wall to your left?

Another middle school teacher was adamant that radicals just cancelled out negatives. Because -2 squared is 4, therefore any time you interact with a radical the negative just disappears. I ended up with detention for fighting for -sqrt(4) is in fact -2 like the book said and not a typo like the teacher insisted. To be fair, he normally taught gym, but this was supposed to be the advanced algebra class... And I was even in one of the better public school systems.

The problem is that the education degree has very little to do with the subject matter being taught. A tech CEO may know a lot about running a business but that doesn't mean they should be teaching the programmers code. Yet we have almost none of the basic subject matter in the training for those tasked with training our kids. It's silly

0

Maverick0984 t1_jbu01jj wrote

Replying to SpecterGT260 (#2,209,596)

Maybe your school was just bad? I don't know what to tell you. Your anecdotal experience differs wildly from mine.

I assume you're happy with what teachers are paid as well based on this "analysis"

Edit: typo

2

SpecterGT260 t1_jbu13ij wrote

Replying to Maverick0984 (#2,209,609)

I addressed that. A top scoring school in ITBS/ITED. I went to a great college and ended up going to professional school. I don't feel I had any obstacles to the life I now have because of primary school. But there were still problems.

And yes, I think we should pay teachers more. It would draw in more people who are actually good educators. Are you trying to make a point?

0

jack821 t1_jbu6j4e wrote

Replying to bittyboyben (#2,207,898)

I understand you want to just let life all blink from existence. Fine. But don’t wish it in a cruel way such as a plague etc. Ironically that’s the whole reason you don’t want it all to continue I’m guessing.

1

Maverick0984 t1_jbuaux3 wrote

Replying to SpecterGT260 (#2,209,643)

My point was that your experience is completely anecdotal yet you claim it as fact. If your school was ranked well, then you got bad teachers in an otherwise good school. Assuming all teachers are improperly trained and dumb is just plain ignorant.

1

Maverick0984 t1_jbucu2h wrote

Replying to SpecterGT260 (#2,210,054)

You never once mentioned the words "personal" or "opinion".

Here are some exerts from your posts:

>Permafrost always reminds me of how broken the education system can be. ​

>The problem is that the education degree has very little to do with the subject matter being taught...Yet we have almost none of the basic subject matter in the training for those tasked with training our kids. It's silly ​

Seems awfully universal to you in these posts my guy.

1

SpecterGT260 t1_jbujgmt wrote

Replying to Maverick0984 (#2,210,242)

It's weird how you don't seem aware that your statement is also anecdotal. My experience was that there are plenty who don't understand it. If you didn't have that experience perhaps you were lucky or you also didn't understand the material.

0

Maverick0984 t1_jbuqywb wrote

Replying to SpecterGT260 (#2,210,566)

Yeah, that's not the only thing you said though. You made blanket claims. See the previous post of mine where I pointed a couple of these instances out. You are trying to backpedal those statements now.

1

Miguel-odon t1_jbvvpwq wrote

Doesn't even need to infect humans to harm us.

Most of our food supply depends on just a few species of plants.

1

alchilito t1_jbvvz6f wrote

Not many apes around for proper virus evolution makes me question this

1