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enirgin t1_j7b5g2u wrote

Not useful information on its own; it's a correlational study. If you filled a Vitamin D rx you were less likely to commit suicide. It does not show any causal relationship.

Maybe if you were able to get out of the house more easily and buy vitamins more easily you were less likely to commit suicide. Or if you were less likely you took better care of yourself (maybe less depressed?) and got vitamins. Or some disease that required vitamin D supplements was associated with lower suicide risk.

Not to say someone shouldn't follow up with a more rigorous study, but this is nothing more than a teaser for more serious research.

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yugosaki t1_j7c5goe wrote

getting a vitamin D prescription filled also indicates this person is in regular contact with a medical provider.

Given that you can easily get vitamin d without a prescription, I'd say the fact they are seeing a doctor is a bigger factor.

​

That being said, anecdotally I find if I forget to take vitamin D in the winter I experience some seasonal depression and fatigue.

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tempskawt t1_j7e9rjz wrote

I'm a vet in Wisconsin. Had a real bad time last year around January when I got back from a deployment to Saudi Arabia. Vitamin D supplements, running intervals, and eating an overly healthy diet fixed it after a while. Not sure if it was sunlight or heat, but it just felt like I had dread going on in the morning and the evening. Thermostat set to 70-72 range, and I would still shiver. Seems to have fixed itself since then. Would be curious to know if it was a fluke or if the/my human body is not good at adjusting to such jarring changes in daily sunlight.

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yugosaki t1_j7egj5d wrote

Unrelated, but when I first read "vet" I interpreted it as "veterinarian" and was like "why would an animal doctor be deployed to saudi arabia" for a good minute before I figured out what I misunderstood

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tempskawt t1_j7ei5nf wrote

There were veterinarians in Saudi! I guess they were vet vets. They took care of the MWDs, military working dogs. They were trained to take down bad guys, but most of the time they were sniffing the vehicles that local Nationals drove on base with. One guy had some fertilizer traces in his vehicle that an MWD indicated on. I got the opportunity to put on the padded suit and get attacked by one, they're no joke. Very well trained though!

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juan2141 t1_j7em1jv wrote

Similar for me minus the deployment, I was feeling down lately then started taking vitamin D again. It didn’t take long until I started feeling better.

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Roronoa_Zaraki t1_j7fdu4r wrote

I have a doctor friend in England who says when Australians come over to the UK to work or study they are massively overrepresented compared to native brits in reporting seasonal depression and getting high dose vitamin d.

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captainsave t1_j7b8ed0 wrote

Why would I leave the house for vitamin D. I don't need a prescription and the Amazon man will drop it off without me having to talk to strangers.

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meontheinternetxx t1_j7bh68w wrote

Well, at my latitude only half of the year. The other half, even if you see the sun it wont help that much.

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Harkwit t1_j7b8w81 wrote

Because it's free outside from the sun.

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halpstonks t1_j7bccbz wrote

some of us live places with not enough sun for our skin type and have to supplement anyway.

cmon sun

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yugosaki t1_j7c5t1l wrote

plus even if there is technically enough sun, if its not warm out we're gonna be wearing long sleeves and pants, so the actual sun to skin exposure is limited a lot.

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Mercury2Phoenix t1_j7cdqsm wrote

Or conversely, if you live somewhere super sunny & warm (like I use to live in Florida) you tend to be concerned about getting sunburns and skin cancer, so you still avoid sun (I was Vitamin D deficient (confirmed via blood work) when I lived there.)

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New_Revenue_4_U t1_j7bzk51 wrote

Actually people who live in northern States/Canada should be taking vitamin D supplement https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-for-more-vitamin-d

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Larein t1_j7c3bq5 wrote

Plus all of Northern Europe. If not all of europe, since Northern US states require some too.

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Igotz80HDnImWinning t1_j7cjesz wrote

The VA ships it to your house. Also, this goes beyond a simple effect to show 1. A dose-dependent improvement (argues more strongly for a necessary or sufficient effect) and 2. A physiological model supporting their hypothesis because darker skinned folks have less vit D from the same amount of sun, and it had a larger effect in black veterans. I don’t love epidemiology, but this is far better than your average retrospective study and clearly points for a large randomized trial to be done to confirm.

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Panigg t1_j7d678g wrote

Anecdotal but I was severely depressed before realizing I had massive vitamine D deficiency. Once that was taken care of my depression was essentially gone.

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ShabbyKitty35 t1_j7ejfmy wrote

As a vet with PTSD, my worst downward spiral was when my Vit D was the lowest it’s ever been. I had to be put on max doseages for 6 months and will be taking a daily supplement the rest of my life to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Vit D, at least in my body, absolutely improves depressive symptoms.

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altcastle t1_j7ekcxm wrote

Was it 10k or 20k ui? I know they got some mega doses out there. You can get too much eventually.

I take 5k right now in winter and prob 2k when I can go outside, and it’s not Hoth.

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ShabbyKitty35 t1_j7ekhdy wrote

For the first 6 months it was 10k iu/day and 50k iu once a week. Now it’s 5k iu/day and in the winter I double it up every 3 days.

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rosaUpodne t1_j7ce3jp wrote

If you take vitamin D regularly, you care about your well-being, so you probably don’t want to end your life.

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korinth86 t1_j7cn1yi wrote

Vitamin D is already used to treat depression and low energy.

Many people spend all day in an office, car, or their home. Lack of sunlight is kind of a modern problem.

Taking a supplement is unlikely to harm you, but if you're concerned consult your doctor.

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xaw09 t1_j7e9y1c wrote

It's pretty well established that one of the symptoms of vitamin d deficiency is depression.

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themustacheclubbitch t1_j7en281 wrote

To not here. Vitamin D should or even must be paired with K2. Vitamin D on its own goes to your blood and fatty cells. Pairing K2 with Vitamin D moves it to the bones and teeth. Essential it’s where it is putting the calcium in your body. So if you were to say prone to heart conditions or breathing Vitamin D alone can worsen those conditions. Matched with K2 alleviates this problem and puts the calcium where it belongs.

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triffid_boy t1_j7d6njj wrote

I agree with your post, but There is atleast a difference between low and high doses, with higher doses having the lowest risk.

A dose response relationship is always nice to see.

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iperus0351 t1_j7is9nz wrote

Vitamin D is a precursor for dopamine. You need it to make the drug that your brain recognizes as happy. It is a dumb study because we already know the chemistry behind why it works. Vitamin D get on that, go about your life.

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tkenben t1_j7fspsv wrote

Yes. People who take vitamin supplements are less of the mind to say "I've given up". It's sort of like saying hoarders and doomsday preppers are less likely to have suicidal thoughts.

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Pheonix686 t1_j7d94kj wrote

Yeah at the moment it's "proactively doing beneficial things for your body potentially benefits your mental health".

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AltCtrlShifty t1_j7c7248 wrote

Paid for by Big Vitamin!

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altcastle t1_j7ek8tf wrote

Yeah, getting us $5 at a time for a 3 month supply at any store. Curses!

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FallingSkies420 t1_j7b92x5 wrote

Yeah I'm more inclined to believe that people who take vitamins are trying to take care of themselves, which of course means lower suicide rates. If I didn't want to live why would I give a s*** about vitamins?

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54B3R_ t1_j7bui4f wrote

My mother says talking vitamin D is like a vitamin version of an antidepressant.

I also feel a difference in my mood, especially in the winter when the sunlight is minimal.

I know it's not scientific, but my own observations make me think those with low vitamin D might experience depressive symptoms. And many people do not go outside enough to get enough vitamin D.

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Snoo-11861 t1_j7cgi8k wrote

It is scientific. Low vitamins D levels cause depressive moods. That’s why people further away from the equator have higher risks of suicide and depression. I use to live in the tropics and have had a deficiency since I moved to the States. Been taking vitamin D lately to cope and it has made winters so much more bearable

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HamzaGaming400 t1_j7cvqmx wrote

I just had a thought. Maybe that’s why winter is always labeled as moody and depressive. While summer is the outgoing and happier season

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Snoo-11861 t1_j7cw3x5 wrote

Yep, that’s one of the reasons why. It’s also probably why the holidays happen in the winter bc of how gloomy it is. Need something to look forward to

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tifumostdays t1_j7d52cs wrote

No, it's more complicated than just vitamin d. People get much more light in their eyes know infer, and move more.

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altcastle t1_j7ekmvo wrote

Plus we’re stuck inside and the days are short.

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MaserGT t1_j7dr17b wrote

There is no scientifically determined connection between proximity to the equator and suicide. Geographic variation in suicide rates is most likely the complex interaction of differences in social organisation, cultural traditions, and biological/genetic factors. The only established link with geographic location is that living at high altitudes increases risk of suicide.

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Snoo-11861 t1_j7dsdan wrote

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/070674370204700611

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11176979_Evidence_That_Latitude_is_Directly_Related_to_Variation_in_Suicide_Rates

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MaserGT t1_j7e7gk3 wrote

Have you read the journal articles you’ve cited? They provide compilations of data and make some statistical inferences, i.e. correlation. They do not, nor do they purport to, establish a causal link between latitude and suicide rates.

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EstaLisa t1_j7cw3j6 wrote

i got a vit d prescription to treat fibroids. haven‘t changed a thing about my habits ever since and turns out i‘ve been without any depression since over a year. that‘s almost unknown of with me. i‘m very thankful that happened.

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altcastle t1_j7ekl5e wrote

Vitamin D is one of two common supplements that has really helped me. The other is magnesium (anything but oxide, body won’t absorb it, I take glycinate.)

Had my doc recommend two others that seem to be helping as well, but I’m still journaling how I feel when I do and don’t take them.

Not wanting to die can be a job itself these days for some reason.

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Larein t1_j7c4ltg wrote

In general suicide rates raise the more north you go. So lack of vitamin D could explain that.

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ejoy-rs2 t1_j7dto3v wrote

I think that's called bad weather, which often correlates to being in a bad mood.

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LeglessN1nja t1_j7bff74 wrote

To leave a pretty corpse?

Yeah your thought was mine as well.

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W3remaid t1_j7beoys wrote

> Supplementation with higher vitamin D dosages was associated with greater risk reductions than lower dosages (Log Average Dosage HR: 0.837 [95% CI: 0.779,0.900]).

Now this is incredibly interesting and actually does imply causation

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pingasthrowaway t1_j7cm107 wrote

Vitamin D is one of the few supplements a lot of scientists believe the daily value should be higher than the amount we set.

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black_hole_blues t1_j7d0qll wrote

I didn’t understand the average dosage part. How much is that in UI?

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lugialegend233 t1_j7buzti wrote

Unfortunately no, this is an observational study, not an experiment, so even strong correlations are just correlations.

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W3remaid t1_j7bvn50 wrote

That’s interesting, since the case and controls were matched to account for confounders (health status, socioeconomic factors, etc) —what do you think the alternative explanation might be?

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lugialegend233 t1_j7bwrpr wrote

One other commenters gave a really good one, people who fill out subscriptions are less likely to have committed suicide because they still care about staying alive enough to take care of themselves. Suicide is a damn complicated subject, but if one is considering it, making the effort of filling a prescription seems... pointless, and I think if we look at people who fill out any non-psychoactive drug vs. committing suicide, we'd see a similar correlation. (Psychoactive excluded because things like depression meds are specifically meant to reduce suicide risk factors, and I believe would confound any results)

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W3remaid t1_j7bx4va wrote

That doesn’t really work because this is a case-control design, meaning that their health status is controlled for. If they were were sick to the point of being non-compliant with meds that would be reflected in their control match

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lugialegend233 t1_j7bxo10 wrote

If suicidal thoughts are considered a health-status, then this whole study is pointless, because they're controlling for the thing which directly leads to suicide. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point?

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W3remaid t1_j7by2o8 wrote

Well obviously you’re not going to control for your dependent variable, that’s the entire point of the study, but they’ve controlled for other health problems. If someone were decompnsated to the point of being unable to pick up prescriptions that would be reflected in their other medical problems. This is partly why psychiatric conditions can lead to physical illness

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caltheon t1_j7cr0mz wrote

If that was true, then you wouldn't expect to see a difference by dosage as the act of filling a prescription for a low dose has the same amount of effort as filling one for a higher dose.

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xdavidliu t1_j7f1d4z wrote

the people who had lower dosages of Vitamin D did fill out prescriptions too; and they had higher risk than those who had higher dosages.

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Melodicmarc t1_j7bpgpi wrote

I started taking vitamin D around 2 or 3 months ago and I do feel like it’s helped with mood swings. Like I don’t get hit with those really depressive thoughts as much as I used to

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InsularAtlantica t1_j7cme0m wrote

Anecdote of one - but ever since I first heard that Vitamin D may help prevent and/or reduce COVID symptoms (the research is mixed) I have been taking Vit D and my mood has been better.

(I've also added morning walks, as well, because that's also been shown to help sleep - thus mood - and reduce COVID risk)

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timtheringityding t1_j7f3ygr wrote

I just started with a variety of of vitamins. One of em being vitamin D. And I still wanna kms so this research is bogus

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RhysieB27 t1_j7f8n8g wrote

"My depression isn't treatable with [medicine A] therefore [medicine A] doesn't work for anyone".

Great logic there.

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frogOnABoletus t1_j7fp5jw wrote

No one is saying vitamin d is a magic potion that cures everyone's suicidality. They're saying it helps people's moods on average.

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CompromisedCEO t1_j7bnosb wrote

Vitamin D deficiency is known to cause physical and psychological problems.

So naturally if you seek to fix that deficiency those problems go away.

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JonWinstonCarl t1_j7ed1dm wrote

I was a submariner. I started taking vitamin D after a psychologist gave my division a speech about her experiences with treating veterans who had alarmingly low vitamin D levels. The next time I went underway, I brought a bottle of 5000iu supplements with me, and it was a night and day difference. I started to feel like normal and part of a team, and not like I was in prison. I work nights and still take them sometimes, especially if I start to feel signs of seasonal depression or general depression symptoms.

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szczszqweqwe t1_j7ctwdu wrote

Shocker.

I'm not veteran, but I alsays got into light depression during fall, but it's got way better since I started to supplement myself with vitamine D 2-3 years ago.

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redpoporganic t1_j7booan wrote

It's important here in MI. It's not uncommon to go a month with 15 minutes of total sunshine. We have higher rates of depression, addiction and suicide.

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BlishBlash t1_j7cvw96 wrote

While vitamin D is not an antidepressant, I do find that it helps "take the edge off".

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ElectronGuru t1_j7bfvrt wrote

I get better sleep with D, particularly more dream activity. Especially in darker winter months. Poor sleep would cause most of the things vitamin D reports to fix.

Note: D should only be taken in the morning

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triffid_boy t1_j7d787t wrote

Vitamin D should be taken with food with some fat in, but there isn't great evidence saying you should avoid taking vitamin D in the afternoon or evenings. Logically, since you make vitamin D from the sun exposure during the day, natural vitamin D levels are probably highest around noon-2pm.

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MagicPistol t1_j7cbxcd wrote

Why should it only be taken in the morning?

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Snoo-11861 t1_j7cgp8d wrote

It wakes you up and would cause poorer sleep

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MagicPistol t1_j7chwij wrote

Cool thanks. Think I'll pick up some vitamin d soon because I'm starting to feel a bit down lately with this winter weather and not being able to do outdoors stuff like I'm used to.

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Snoo-11861 t1_j7cqora wrote

Yeah, I’ve been more consistent with it this winter and was doing much better. I hit a wall emotionally and was struggling hard. And decided to take it every morning. Feeling much better

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the_wailing_walrus t1_j7bztjm wrote

I started taking vitamin D and my depression symptoms improved, so I experienced that correlation first-hand. I began taking it per doctor advice. This was very much not the only change in my life at the time.

Some obvious confounding factors to consider: this resulted from first contact with a doctor regarding my depression symptoms and the initiation of a holistic care plan, began taking SSRIs, began therapy, changed living/working arrangements to remove sources of excessive stress, increased social contact with friends/family, generally started taking better care of myself when I was capable again.

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MeN3D t1_j7cpj2n wrote

We are animals that need sunlight to live

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Mumbawobz t1_j7cedq8 wrote

Upped my dose to 4500 IU this year for my SAD and there has been such a drastic improvement in my mood in the weeks since.

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mtcwby t1_j7bvka7 wrote

I believe it. Before being diagnosed I had a hard time in the winter. Leave when it's dark, come home in the dark. Pretty sure it was a minor case of depression and I believe my dad went his entire life with it undiagnosed. While I try to be very good about taking daily supplements there's been a couple times where I didn't for a while. That low key depression comes back when there's no reason for it.

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maynardd1 t1_j7d24r0 wrote

Welp, I take vitamin D everyday, have done so for years...can attest, I have no desire to off myself...

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DNTOP t1_j7bv3op wrote

We're supposed to trust a paper that uses the default Stata graph format?

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korinth86 t1_j7cn4tx wrote

I mean Vitamin D is already known to help depression... This isn't new information really.

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Koffeekage t1_j7bwaw2 wrote

Canada : bans vitamin d supplements.

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CraniumKart t1_j7csl18 wrote

Were the blinded controls taking placebo?

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vonvoltage t1_j7d3wzw wrote

They've been telling us in the north that suicide rates are higher when our days are really short in winter. I can see there being truth to what's being said in this post.

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HippoKingOfOld t1_j7dc7jw wrote

Guess I started taking the D at the right time.

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kaycita t1_j7dh38p wrote

I just had my vitamin d levels checked and was considered severely deficient at 19 ng/ml. Doctor says everyone is deficient and should be well above 30. She has me on weekly megadoses of 50,000 UI now

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SisterYahtzee t1_j7drg93 wrote

I'm on citalopram. I've had duloxatine added to boost it.

However, I am very pale, have a family history of melanoma, and live in Portland, Oregon, where it is cloudy for like 6 months of the year. I'm not supposed to go on the sun, and even if I was supposed to. It wouldn't be there. Doc added 1,000iu of vitamin D daily and it did help. It really helped even out those nasty depressive episodes.

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CalCOMLA t1_j7dusaa wrote

Vitamin D increases testosterone levels. The increase in T probably has something to do with it.

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ReleaseTheGanja t1_j7e01gz wrote

Life long Seasonal Affective Disorder has been much better this winter due to vitamin D recommendation! Taking 2000 IU a day since October and have had much less depression! Possibly saved my life.

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werdnak84 t1_j7e445n wrote

I wasn't aware Vitamin D affects how you think.

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HaderTurul t1_j7e5tow wrote

We already know this. Vitamin D both bolsters your immune system and reduces depression. That's why many scientists pushed back on Covid guidelines and restrictions urging and sometimes forcing everyone to remain indoors.

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esotericquiddity t1_j7ea92c wrote

Yes, depression is a side effect of vitamin d deficiency. It’s an important one to not overlook.

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ann_no_aku t1_j7eiyaw wrote

You can still want to take care of yourself and be suicidal. The point is keeping up appearances so no one knows. Be healthy. Take vitamins. Practice self care.

I wouldn't want anyone to watch me fall apart.

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e_smith338 t1_j7ellzk wrote

Maybe I’ll take one of those from the bottle that’s been sitting in my room for 5 years.

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t3nsi0n_ t1_j7eowab wrote

Go outside people, its free.

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dimmu1313 t1_j7ephya wrote

I recently found out I have a vitamin D deficiency, Street my psychiatrist ordered blood tests for that and several other things.

I'm on a massive dose of a prescription supplement and hopefully things will turn around because I've been dealing with really hefty depression for quite a while now and things have been looking very bleak.

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Gmannen t1_j7esos1 wrote

Isn't most of the vitamin D research, that say you should take some, bought by tha companies that produces vitamin D? I listed to a professor talk about how older people in Spain for example has less vitamin D in their body that people of the same age in Nordic countries. And that most of the vitamin D comes from what you eat, fish being exceptionally rich.

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Deenda_Deenda_who t1_j7fm7qz wrote

Maybe that's why cloudy cities have a higher suicide rate.

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Khaimon t1_j7fmgwu wrote

Imagine a room where a few people are kept against their will. Their horrific captors torture them day and night. So much so that they all want out. Thing is, they are forced to ingest a ton of vitamin D supplements.

Oh, the human mind. So cruel yet so inventive; For they cannot act that way, as the big D (that’s what they call the vitamin) prevents them for doing so.

Also we could invent a holiday where everyone is required to eat loads of vitamins. « Vitamin Day »

Put them inside coffins as they act as S repellent: watch the unfortunate souls walk out as a second chance at living a full life arise for them.

True good can be done here. But will they listen no.

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Janus_The_Great t1_j7focnu wrote

We'vd knowntht for some time now. Its common praczice in scand8navia and Canada...

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Macosaurus92 t1_j7c3izo wrote

So that's why my doc at the VA just threw those in there. Thought it was weirdly unrelated

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guitar_slanger t1_j7d9w95 wrote

Seems obvious, considering low vit D can cause depression or anxiety.

Why is ever post in this sub along the lines of "being shot causes you to bleed"?

0

Juventus1322 t1_j7enc27 wrote

Well I take vitamin D supplements, am a veteran, and have never committed suicide. So I agree.

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imeuru t1_j7bzbr5 wrote

Alaska would like to have a word about DST.

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Incognito57 t1_j7cdhli wrote

Veterans love the big D.

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