FlexRVA21984 t1_j5qjorj wrote
Fuck that kid. I hope he rots in prison for the rest of his life. Same goes for anyone else that commits violence against another. There’s no room for violence within society.
Potential-Height582 t1_j5rvnew wrote
But there is room for nuance and compassion and recognizing that circumstances and family and mental health are all part of this equation. This kid got a diagnosis of “funky” by a court psychologist - that tells me he’s pretty bad off. So yeah, fuck everything that led to Lucia losing her life and to this other child losing his as well.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5s6gzp wrote
If the kid should have been hospitalized and wasn’t, then yeah, I feel for him. However, as someone that had an uncle spend 40+yrs in the maximum security wing of Central State, I do not give out free passes for unacceptable behavior, whether mentally ill, or not.
More importantly, if he should have been hospitalized and wasn’t, then the parents should be facing consequences for endangering other people’s children. Obviously, they need to face some serious consequences for failing to secure their gun. But, if the child was as sick as you make him out to be, then he never should have been in a regular school
jennbo t1_j5slpqw wrote
His parents were dead. His father was murdered, his mom died of an asthma attack in front of him. He was in the custody of a relative where he experienced forms of abuse, likely including sexual, and had free access to guns. They charged the person with the gun but the case was thrown out thanks to our country’s interpretation of the second amendment. It’s all in the article. My husband worked at one of those specialty schools and got his wrist broken. Those are critically underfunded too, and can’t hold all the students who need to be there. The teachers don’t have to be certified.
Retribution is never going to fix what’s wrong with people like this. We have no free healthcare (and many countries with free healthcare don’t include mental health anyway.) Reducing violence involves rehabilitation and reform this country doesn’t offer.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5smaah wrote
I’m not talking about retribution. I’m talking about appropriate mental healthcare. Sometimes, people must be institutionalized. It’s just the way it is. I don’t care about someone’s sob story if they hurt or kill people. We all have sob stories, but not all of us are getting violent with ppl.
The fact that the guardians weren’t prosecuted for failure to secure their weapons, however, is absurd. If we can’t address people failing to handle firearms in the proper way, then there’s really no sense in talking about any of this. I guess we should just “hope it works itself out”, I guess.
jennbo t1_j5sowmq wrote
I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but they don’t actually do any “appropriate mental healthcare” in most prisons. I worked in drug treatment court and it was bare bones treatment for addiction, and the program was only even offered for nonviolent people. They might give you meds if you have outward symptoms, but nobody is unpacking trauma or going through intensive psychological programs in the American criminal justice system. Maybe a volunteer therapy group comes once a week if you’re lucky, Not everyone is violent, but at age 13 your brain is nowhere near developed and if you’ve experienced trauma, your emotional quotient age is likely even younger than your actual age. Normal 13 year olds don’t shoot people at random. When one does, we can prevent more of this shit if we ask ourselves why it happened and what might prevent it from happening again instead of treating it as a one-off event that just happened at random. This kid is likely already lost to himself or the American prison complex or both.
This isn’t about an individual case, it’s about a complete systemic failure.
I feel awful for the parents that nothing can be done.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5spkg6 wrote
What prison? Reread my comments. If the kid is that mentally disturbed, then he should have been institutionalized BEFORE he killed someone. Afterwards, it’s too late.
As far as rehabilitation of prisoners goes, good luck. I think it’s worthwhile to give ppl the opportunity to reform themselves (addiction treatment, job training, education opportunities, etc). But, the voice is theirs. If they keep ending up in prison, the problem isn’t the prison. It’s them. I have spent time in lockup. I have met dysfunctional pieces of shit that don’t care about being there. They will tell you as much. Not everyone has an excuse for their shitty fucking behavior. I’m willing to wager most don’t.
jennbo t1_j5udvra wrote
Be institutionalized by who? School, state? That stuff costs money, and often isn’t covered by insurance. Dead parents and abusive guardians living in poverty can’t/aren’t going to put you into a system and probably couldn’t pay for it even if they did.
You vastly underestimate how much poverty and violence goes into making a criminal (there are wide wide studies on this) and vastly overestimate how many resources are available in this country for abused and impoverished people.
The American prison system is one of the worst in the world. High recidivism rates. Extremely high incarceration rates. The most in the western world. Evil people and troubled people and people with money problems exist everywhere, but countries that have real reform programs in prisons and those that offer social services to people in poverty have fewer people in jail and much lower recidivism rates.
I suggest you study criminology and compare imprisoned people in the USA versus those in like, Japan or most European countries. It doesn’t have to be like this. The American criminal justice system fails victims and perpetrators and has not led to decreased rates of crime.
Crime does not exist in a vacuum. Relatively few people born into financially and emotionally healthy homes become criminals, and those that are have elements of psychopathy or sociopathy which are conditions that are still relatively hard to treat. American prisons may have more sociopaths and psychopaths behind bars, which is common in most countries, but the majority of people in American prisons aren’t sociopaths or psychopaths.
When it comes to crime, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And our tax dollars pay for exactly zero ounces of prevention.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5v2ez7 wrote
Well, you can hold your breath on the idea that Americans will spend more money on criminals. If we aren’t willing to provide access to affordable healthcare to our citizens, then I can guarantee that we aren’t going to spend more money on the ppl that break laws. They aren’t what I’d consider a top priority.
jennbo t1_j5wmbfy wrote
Obviously we're not. This is a horrific capitalist country that doesn't care about anyone. But all people deserve fundamental human rights, period, and if you don't believe that, you're headed toward eugenics. And again, people aren't born criminals or prisoners. By the way, prisoners are citizens too. Also, "people who break laws" is nearly everyone. If you've ever sped, smoked weed, jaywalked. If you're a mother stealing diapers and formula from a gas station. If you're addicted to drugs and have no way to seek treatment and can't control your behavior. I guess we're all disposable people to you, then?
The same argument is often used for immigrants, asylum seekers, people of various races, people of various classes... in the place of the word "criminals" here. At the end of the day, we're only going to spend money on wars, weapons, for our politicians to receive the sort of funding/healthcare/salaries that everyone should have, and of course, ensuring that the wealthiest people live in comfort while the poverty gap increases and our planet starts to melt and burn.
I'm just saying, philosophically, you're wrong.
You're right, nothing's going to change. Just remember that at the next mass shooting, the next dead preteen girl, the next homeless dead body on Richmond streets, the next unarmed Black person shot dead by a cop.
But hey, I'm sure throwing more and more people into jail will work. We've been trying the same thing since the beginning of the country. "Tough on crime!" but crime never goes anywhere. Racial imbalances in who gets arrested and charged. Overcrowded for-profit prisons. The only developed country that steal has the death penalty. Is America safe yet?
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5woy7c wrote
You’re right. People aren’t born criminals. They CHOOSE to be.
Every addict has access to treatment. AA & NA cost nothing. As a recovering alcoholic that has gone more than 12yrs w/o a drink, I can attest to the fact that 12 step programs work, and I’m an atheist, so the steps can be done w/o faith in anything.
I can see you make a lot of assumptions about people you know nothing about. I am one of the biggest critics of this country you’ll ever meet. Tell me: What exactly do YOU do to change anything? Do you vote, write/call/meet w/ your representatives? Do you donate your time &/or money to organizations that work to create the world you want to see? What do all those strawmen (immigrants, asylum seekers, etc) have to do with criminals & how they’re treated?
Do you have any firsthand experience in ANYTHING you’re talking about? I do, and you can take your “You’re wrong” comment and shove it as far as humanly possibly up your ass. Okay?
riverrockgoldengirl t1_j5u1kew wrote
He will be sentenced as a minor I am sure it’s because “funky” or not he needs some type of mental care. This was a tragedy all the way around. I would like to see this so called foster parents investigated. If it’s something funky then that person needs to be looked at. Same as the other kid that was living there. Tragic
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