Comments
lunar_unit t1_j5ps5jt wrote
>What is his liability for keeping an unsecured gun around a mentally disturbed child who had already been posting threats to his school??
It's a class 1 misdemeanor, which is basically a slap on the wrist. In any case, the cops charged the guardian, it went to court, and he was acquitted due to “insufficient evidence to convict.”
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter4/section18.2-56.2/
Article on gun owners' acquittal:
Lidjungle t1_j5py3mp wrote
"According to Taylor, Judge Margaret W. Deglau cited a “safety talk” given by Pierce about gun safety as “sufficient instead of simply locking away a lethal weapon in an appropriate manner.”
JFC.
bozatwork t1_j5v12q0 wrote
What an indictment of the system. Complete joke. No, it's not sufficient. Why? Because he still took the weapon without permission and used it to kill someone.
Asterion7 t1_j5q0y3u wrote
What a fucking joke.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5qkaql wrote
We need to start handing out decades long sentences for gun offenses. Possession of a stolen gun? 20yrs mandatory minimum. Fail to properly secure a gun? 10yrs mandatory minimum. Gun used in the commission of a crime? 15yrs… It’s time to get serious with these pieces of shit. These aren’t victimless crimes. You want a gun? Then, fucking be responsible. Otherwise, rot your life away.
mah658 t1_j5u8a7t wrote
Won't ever happen in 'merica. The right just loves their guns just too damn much, and any mention of common sense gun control such as storing firearms under lock and key sets them off in a "you can't take my guns" rant.
upearlyRVA t1_j5qt8rk wrote
Pretty sure renting the basement wasn't allowed as well. BTW, based on VA law, that particularl gun was considered "secured"
Lidjungle t1_j5qu4hg wrote
Literally the Judge was like "But they had a 'safety talk', acquitted!"
I know the bank doesn't bother to hire security guards, they just have someone outside that gives you the "Stealing's bad, m'kay?" talk. Because that's known to work.
geekitude t1_j5pahnz wrote
That kid didn't have a chance. What a tragedy all around. RIP Lucia.
NuttingOnNutzy t1_j5pbnpa wrote
Psychologist doesn’t know what condition he has, describes him as “funky”...
dreww4546 t1_j5pg7x3 wrote
He was diagnosed as "funky"?
JVorhees t1_j5qfm25 wrote
>During a December 2021 court hearing, Michele Killough Nelson, a psychologist who specializes in forensic evaluation of juveniles for court, said, “There is something just off with Dylan. There is something funky going on, but none of us know what it is.”
>Nelson diagnosed Williams with unspecified trauma and stressor-related disorder and unspecified neurodevelopment disorder. But she added that treatment would be difficult without a clear diagnosis.
>Williams’ father was murdered when the boy was 2, and he watched his mother die from an asthma attack at age 12. He never received grief counseling. His custody was unclear in the intervening years, and he was likely exposed to domestic and sexual abuses, according to testimony at the December 2021 hearing.
dreww4546 t1_j5r00tl wrote
Thanks for sharing. I read psych cases at work and have never seen a diagnosis of "something funky going on" before. I'll have to share tomorrow w coworkers
ill-disposed t1_j5qn813 wrote
The cycle of violence perpetuated. 😓
NuttingOnNutzy t1_j5q7pzh wrote
The court psychologist in the article says he’s too “funky” to be accurately diagnosed
[deleted] t1_j5rz9a0 wrote
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bigdawgwhatup t1_j5qwpe6 wrote
What are you trying to imply?
FattieBanton t1_j5pi3mx wrote
Nah man I’m sick of this shit
bigdawgwhatup t1_j5qwies wrote
This happened almost 2 years ago
FattieBanton t1_j5r0kzd wrote
True, I guess I should get over it or something right?
bigdawgwhatup t1_j5r1f09 wrote
No. I’m just saying it’s not something to get newly enraged over if you weren’t aware of it before. I wasn’t sure if you already knew about it or not.
ExpensiveSyrup t1_j5rx4yy wrote
For those who knew her or know people who loved her, the time is irrelevant. It’s a tragedy no two ways about it.
bigdawgwhatup t1_j5rxwlh wrote
Well yeah obviously
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Intrepid-Branch8982 t1_j5qanlh wrote
Yeah. It’s time to start charging adults who leave their gun unsecured in these situations with murder. Nothing else will work. This is disgusting
bigdawgwhatup t1_j5qwvqg wrote
He was charged. Got thrown out
STREAMOFCONSCIOUSN3S t1_j5pd68n wrote
> Henrico Circuit Judge Richard S. Wallerstein Jr. convicted Williams after accepting his pleas and set sentencing for April 14. The boy’s plea agreement caps at 60 years the active prison term to which he can be sentenced.
Hopefully he's in there the full 60. He sounds like he had a horrible upbringing such that he's an inherent danger to society.
RVA_Warrior804 t1_j5q8c7b wrote
Hopefully he gets some HELP and isnt just thrown in with adults
STREAMOFCONSCIOUSN3S t1_j5rjzwf wrote
Yeah, ideally he'll get rehabilitated over those 60 years. We'll see.
ENTlightened t1_j5sc8tg wrote
There is no rehab in prison.
Dr_Bonejangles t1_j5rwaen wrote
Throw him in a wood chipper
MLM1414 t1_j5q1bx3 wrote
If adults don’t get nowhere near the full sentence, I highly doubt this kid will. That’s the unfortunate reality of the justice system with some of these judges that have been around way too long and are easy on crime.
freetimerva t1_j5q03la wrote
Praying he gets the full 60 years.
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freetimerva t1_j5qtm3h wrote
I'd keep my family as far from him and his family as I could.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5qjorj wrote
Fuck that kid. I hope he rots in prison for the rest of his life. Same goes for anyone else that commits violence against another. There’s no room for violence within society.
Potential-Height582 t1_j5rvnew wrote
But there is room for nuance and compassion and recognizing that circumstances and family and mental health are all part of this equation. This kid got a diagnosis of “funky” by a court psychologist - that tells me he’s pretty bad off. So yeah, fuck everything that led to Lucia losing her life and to this other child losing his as well.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5s6gzp wrote
If the kid should have been hospitalized and wasn’t, then yeah, I feel for him. However, as someone that had an uncle spend 40+yrs in the maximum security wing of Central State, I do not give out free passes for unacceptable behavior, whether mentally ill, or not.
More importantly, if he should have been hospitalized and wasn’t, then the parents should be facing consequences for endangering other people’s children. Obviously, they need to face some serious consequences for failing to secure their gun. But, if the child was as sick as you make him out to be, then he never should have been in a regular school
jennbo t1_j5slpqw wrote
His parents were dead. His father was murdered, his mom died of an asthma attack in front of him. He was in the custody of a relative where he experienced forms of abuse, likely including sexual, and had free access to guns. They charged the person with the gun but the case was thrown out thanks to our country’s interpretation of the second amendment. It’s all in the article. My husband worked at one of those specialty schools and got his wrist broken. Those are critically underfunded too, and can’t hold all the students who need to be there. The teachers don’t have to be certified.
Retribution is never going to fix what’s wrong with people like this. We have no free healthcare (and many countries with free healthcare don’t include mental health anyway.) Reducing violence involves rehabilitation and reform this country doesn’t offer.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5smaah wrote
I’m not talking about retribution. I’m talking about appropriate mental healthcare. Sometimes, people must be institutionalized. It’s just the way it is. I don’t care about someone’s sob story if they hurt or kill people. We all have sob stories, but not all of us are getting violent with ppl.
The fact that the guardians weren’t prosecuted for failure to secure their weapons, however, is absurd. If we can’t address people failing to handle firearms in the proper way, then there’s really no sense in talking about any of this. I guess we should just “hope it works itself out”, I guess.
jennbo t1_j5sowmq wrote
I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but they don’t actually do any “appropriate mental healthcare” in most prisons. I worked in drug treatment court and it was bare bones treatment for addiction, and the program was only even offered for nonviolent people. They might give you meds if you have outward symptoms, but nobody is unpacking trauma or going through intensive psychological programs in the American criminal justice system. Maybe a volunteer therapy group comes once a week if you’re lucky, Not everyone is violent, but at age 13 your brain is nowhere near developed and if you’ve experienced trauma, your emotional quotient age is likely even younger than your actual age. Normal 13 year olds don’t shoot people at random. When one does, we can prevent more of this shit if we ask ourselves why it happened and what might prevent it from happening again instead of treating it as a one-off event that just happened at random. This kid is likely already lost to himself or the American prison complex or both.
This isn’t about an individual case, it’s about a complete systemic failure.
I feel awful for the parents that nothing can be done.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5spkg6 wrote
What prison? Reread my comments. If the kid is that mentally disturbed, then he should have been institutionalized BEFORE he killed someone. Afterwards, it’s too late.
As far as rehabilitation of prisoners goes, good luck. I think it’s worthwhile to give ppl the opportunity to reform themselves (addiction treatment, job training, education opportunities, etc). But, the voice is theirs. If they keep ending up in prison, the problem isn’t the prison. It’s them. I have spent time in lockup. I have met dysfunctional pieces of shit that don’t care about being there. They will tell you as much. Not everyone has an excuse for their shitty fucking behavior. I’m willing to wager most don’t.
jennbo t1_j5udvra wrote
Be institutionalized by who? School, state? That stuff costs money, and often isn’t covered by insurance. Dead parents and abusive guardians living in poverty can’t/aren’t going to put you into a system and probably couldn’t pay for it even if they did.
You vastly underestimate how much poverty and violence goes into making a criminal (there are wide wide studies on this) and vastly overestimate how many resources are available in this country for abused and impoverished people.
The American prison system is one of the worst in the world. High recidivism rates. Extremely high incarceration rates. The most in the western world. Evil people and troubled people and people with money problems exist everywhere, but countries that have real reform programs in prisons and those that offer social services to people in poverty have fewer people in jail and much lower recidivism rates.
I suggest you study criminology and compare imprisoned people in the USA versus those in like, Japan or most European countries. It doesn’t have to be like this. The American criminal justice system fails victims and perpetrators and has not led to decreased rates of crime.
Crime does not exist in a vacuum. Relatively few people born into financially and emotionally healthy homes become criminals, and those that are have elements of psychopathy or sociopathy which are conditions that are still relatively hard to treat. American prisons may have more sociopaths and psychopaths behind bars, which is common in most countries, but the majority of people in American prisons aren’t sociopaths or psychopaths.
When it comes to crime, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And our tax dollars pay for exactly zero ounces of prevention.
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5v2ez7 wrote
Well, you can hold your breath on the idea that Americans will spend more money on criminals. If we aren’t willing to provide access to affordable healthcare to our citizens, then I can guarantee that we aren’t going to spend more money on the ppl that break laws. They aren’t what I’d consider a top priority.
jennbo t1_j5wmbfy wrote
Obviously we're not. This is a horrific capitalist country that doesn't care about anyone. But all people deserve fundamental human rights, period, and if you don't believe that, you're headed toward eugenics. And again, people aren't born criminals or prisoners. By the way, prisoners are citizens too. Also, "people who break laws" is nearly everyone. If you've ever sped, smoked weed, jaywalked. If you're a mother stealing diapers and formula from a gas station. If you're addicted to drugs and have no way to seek treatment and can't control your behavior. I guess we're all disposable people to you, then?
The same argument is often used for immigrants, asylum seekers, people of various races, people of various classes... in the place of the word "criminals" here. At the end of the day, we're only going to spend money on wars, weapons, for our politicians to receive the sort of funding/healthcare/salaries that everyone should have, and of course, ensuring that the wealthiest people live in comfort while the poverty gap increases and our planet starts to melt and burn.
I'm just saying, philosophically, you're wrong.
You're right, nothing's going to change. Just remember that at the next mass shooting, the next dead preteen girl, the next homeless dead body on Richmond streets, the next unarmed Black person shot dead by a cop.
But hey, I'm sure throwing more and more people into jail will work. We've been trying the same thing since the beginning of the country. "Tough on crime!" but crime never goes anywhere. Racial imbalances in who gets arrested and charged. Overcrowded for-profit prisons. The only developed country that steal has the death penalty. Is America safe yet?
FlexRVA21984 t1_j5woy7c wrote
You’re right. People aren’t born criminals. They CHOOSE to be.
Every addict has access to treatment. AA & NA cost nothing. As a recovering alcoholic that has gone more than 12yrs w/o a drink, I can attest to the fact that 12 step programs work, and I’m an atheist, so the steps can be done w/o faith in anything.
I can see you make a lot of assumptions about people you know nothing about. I am one of the biggest critics of this country you’ll ever meet. Tell me: What exactly do YOU do to change anything? Do you vote, write/call/meet w/ your representatives? Do you donate your time &/or money to organizations that work to create the world you want to see? What do all those strawmen (immigrants, asylum seekers, etc) have to do with criminals & how they’re treated?
Do you have any firsthand experience in ANYTHING you’re talking about? I do, and you can take your “You’re wrong” comment and shove it as far as humanly possibly up your ass. Okay?
riverrockgoldengirl t1_j5u1kew wrote
He will be sentenced as a minor I am sure it’s because “funky” or not he needs some type of mental care. This was a tragedy all the way around. I would like to see this so called foster parents investigated. If it’s something funky then that person needs to be looked at. Same as the other kid that was living there. Tragic
brianfallen97 t1_j5rpt14 wrote
Sounds like there were so many warning signs that went completely ignored...what a tragedy
Dr_Bonejangles t1_j5rw0sb wrote
Funky ? Shit man, that's code for wood chipper.
xDocFearx t1_j5rk7g7 wrote
Securing guns is such a complex topic. Yea you can buy a gun safe but there are so many lockpicking YouTube videos that these kids can still get into them. You can easily just google what safe you have and the type of lock it has. Then search that YouTube video. Unless they’re locks made by the very top companies they do not have good picking protection at all. There are many locks that just require raking with a certain tool. Kid can just order the exact equipment he needs online without his parents noticing. Though I’m sure just locking your guns up will stop MOST kids
Potential-Height582 t1_j5rt0m6 wrote
It’s really not. Securing a gun is basic and saying some kids can pick the lock isn’t an excuse for not securing the gun.
xDocFearx t1_j5ru11b wrote
Never said it’s an excuse but people seem to think it’s some sort of catch all. Yes putting them in safes will stop most kids from getting to them. But it won’t stop even close to all of them
AndThenThereWasQueso t1_j5rox0f wrote
It’s not that complex when most of these kids who got their hands on their family member’s gun got it because it wasn’t in a safe at all.
[deleted] t1_j5s690w wrote
Those steps you’re describing are called deterrents lol.
Let’s see, everything you said OR leave gun in closet drawer. Oh well kid will get to it regardless. Lol use your big boy brain.
xDocFearx t1_j5sbnww wrote
Were you ever a teenager or friends with ones? Deterrents work great! But we can’t act like they’ll solve all the issues. My friend’s dad had an extremely expensive gun cabinet. My friend knew exactly where the key was because he watched where his dad would go after a hunting trip. He would look at what part of their bedroom he would be in then searched it one day while they weren’t home.
[deleted] t1_j5tppa5 wrote
Using a safe and hiding the key PROPERLY is part of gun safety.
His dad was/is an irresponsible gun owner.
Just having a safe doesn’t make someone a good/safe gun owner just like only following the speed limit in a car doesn’t make someone a good/safe driver.
I can follow the speed limit and be swerving all across the highway. Do you see how a statement like “use a safe” doesn’t just mean to only use a safe and not follow other safety protocols like hiding the key?
Let me know if you have any other questions. Hope that helps.
Lidjungle t1_j5pkyvx wrote
"Detectives responded to the home and spoke with the owner, who advised that he rented the basement to Richard Pierce and his two adopted children, which included Williams. Pierce then talked with police and advised he owned a 9 mm pistol and showed officers where he kept it, along with ammunition."
Another unsecured gun. So happy we live in a country just f___ing full of responsible gun owners. What is his liability for keeping an unsecured gun around a mentally disturbed child who had already been posting threats to his school??