Another case of entrenched interests trying to squash competition? In Rhode Island?! Naaaaaah!

That’s a good comment, be a real shame if someone was to….”edit” it. -teamsters probably

Wait, I thought breweries in RI always had to use a distributor?

Who is self distributing?

Wonder which one of the reps who pushed these bills forward owns liquor stores or has stakes in distribution companies.

What possible good reason to further restrict businesses that are actually thriving in RI? Other than to line some old timers pockets because they can't adapt.

This seems to make it so breweries could not hold an interest in a Wholesale company. Which breweries would this actually effect? I need more details to know if I would actually be against this or not.

I think it means direct to customer sales. Like buying cans to go while you're at the brewery.

I was under the same impression. The language of the legislation makes it sound like they are trying to prevent breweries from starting or owning their own distribution companies. It comes across more like they are trying to block breweries from self distributing rather than taking away an existing right. Admittedly it's early and I haven't had my coffee yet so maybe there's something I'm missing.

To be clear, I'm opposed to this legislation either way (the Three Tier System is a relic that hurts consumers and small businesses and needs to be done away with), but some additional clarity would be helpful.

Titled barn, Linesider, 12 guns, vigilante, ragged island and moniker all have wholesale licenses. Going with a traditional distributor eliminates 2/3rds of a breweries margin. If this were to pass these breweries would be crippled, not to mention they would fire their entire wholesale teams.

There are some others too. I just can’t remember off the top of my head. I believe it’s 9 licenses total.

No, that's allowed by state law. There's a pretty low limit of how much they can sell per person (last I knew). I believe it is the lowest limit in the country.

Do you know how/where to look these up? Or does it have to be a records request?

Teamsters are also trying to force wine and beer sales in groceries and convenience stores, threatening existing liquor stores, 99% of which are small, one-location/license (as mandated by law) family-operations, not rich & greedy power players. These Rhode Island-resident-owned brick & mortar businesses need our help too. It would be a shame to see our neighbors have to close up shop while Bezos cashes in even more.

It's kinda weird to see teamsters demonized and not the companies they happen to be working for. I guess the rah-rah pro-union sentiment has a limit on this sub?

I have only skimmed the laws but wholesale = selling to liquor stores and bar/restaurants.

There are 9 breweries with licenses.

This is not an attack at the teamsters as an organization. That being said, this is a move not to protect jobs this is them trying to keep the status quo. these distro operations are TEENY TINY compared to the three big distributors, who btw are in on this with them, again not to protect jobs.

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This is about an industry (craft Beer) that is growing faster in Rhode Island than the national average and is hiring people left and right to keep up.

Wouldn’t not passing this give an unfair advantage to the breweries with enough money the self-distribute? It costs a lot to set that up - you need your own trucks, drivers, insurance, and sales reps. It seems to me that having the same distribution rules for all breweries, both big and tiny, levels the playing field for everyone.

https://dbr.ri.gov/about-dbr/lookup-license

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They need to create new LLCs to get the license so most likely wont match up with breweries.

the ones i know of are mission beverage and Rhode island beer collective.

>This is not an attack at the teamsters as an organization.

You singled them out pretty specifically without any sourcing and, frankly, in defiance of basic logic that says the lobbying arm most likely to push for something like this is the actual distribution companies.

This might have been not your intention, but it's what you did.

I mean they proposed the bill. Testified with the distributor lobbyist in favor of it. No issue with them before that, bill goes away, no issue with them again. Its a direct attack on the brewing industry and its viability and the jobs and livelihoods of hundreds of Rhode island residents.

Lol this sub isn’t going to go against a union

Also: pro-union here 🖐️ Don’t want to give the wrong impression. But the grocery bill will turn the Rhode Island wine scene into Florida. People take our selection for granted, but it took a long time and a lot of effort to get it to where it is now. We don’t know how good we have it.

Not really. The big boys already have contracts with distributors (whalers, Gansett, grey sail, Newport etc.). The smaller brewers don’t need all that. in most cases an owner is the van driver and sales rep.

Exactly. This is not about unions. It’s about making this state friendly for new and small businesses. The current three their system is all about protecting big beer/brands.

That’s not really accurate. The three tiered system protects independent retailers and also helps to keep the selection from becoming a corporate cesspool of lowest common denominator swill. Currently brewer’s licenses are far more accommodating and attractive and give brewers more ability to grow and make money than retailers, who have zero opportunities for growth beyond what they can sell off their shelves. Brewers can “brew”, be a restaurant, a retailer (think it’s the equivalent of a case at a time??), and distribute on a license that costs what, $1500? Retailers have to spend at least $100k for a license that only lets them sell retail. So all in all, brewers have it pretty good, which is probably why there are so many of them! Not RI but check out Tree House and all their swanky locations. Impressions can be deceptive but it appears they are making bank. Perhaps the solution is to expand retailer’s licenses so that on-premise sales are allowed as well. Why not have a free for all? Get your scratchy and crack a cold one at your local packy!

But then the smaller breweries teaming up with the same distributors as the bigger ones would mean that the small ones would have access to the exact same delivery and sales infrastructure as the bigger ones. They could distribute further, have access to way more stores and bars, and not have to invest capital into their own system.

Basically any retail place that sells Whalers or Narragansett would have immediate access and ability to purchase and sell Moniker or Rejects or whatever.

That is not accurate. Brewers have to apply for a completely separate license. The distro license is 4 grand a year. Also, I think it needs to be reiterated. This is and has been 100% legal. The DBR is also against this. And what treehouse was able to do is a perfect example of how Rhode Island breweries are disadvantaged compared to their piers in Ct and MA.

Both of those states a brewery license allows for distro. They can also sell wine and unlimited cases to customers.

I don’t see distributors failing there, And tree house doesn’t even distribute fyi.

It doesn’t work that way unfortunately. Small breweries get buried in large distribution companies. They cannot compete with the huge incentive programs large companies use to motivate sales forces. If there are 10 Draft lines or 30 openings in a cooler door and you have 75-100 brands. The little guys is lost in the shuffle.

Edit: spelling

Ok so it's 4k a year vs $1500, everything else I said is accurate. Everyone with a liquor license needs to re-up every year, that's not special. But retailer's pay far more right out of the gate (again: upwards of 100k) with zero opportunity for growth. Retailers cannot purchase any other license. They are trapped in their current, not-very-lucrative circumstances, and they never have anyone to defend them. Most distributors are not raking it in either. RI has some very small distributors, and many more who have failed. They have to pay their suppliers within 30 days, and if they don't get paid in 30 days, then their lives get a bit difficult. And yet no one ever defends them either. If what we're after (aside from tasty beverages) is a healthy environment to create and sustain thriving small businesses connected to and with a stake in their communities, then we need to listen to all of them, not just the ones we happen to like. Rhode Island has managed to protect its independent retailers from going the way of Total Wine carcasses (even though it has a looooong way to go) almost more than any other state. But it's holding on by a thread. Picking and choosing who gets to succeed here isn't really the way to go about fostering that healthy environment. If we're really interested in leveling the playing field, then let's do it for everyone. How? Beats me. But like I said, allowing retailers to sell by the glass, as well as, I don't know, be importers?? Would that be acceptable? How do we maintain our current pretty awesome selection of booze across the board, from beer to byrhh, without throwing some segments under the bus? Are we going to continue to only change the rules for some and never for others? I'm just having a hard time seeing how that is fair.

Also I know treehouse doesn't distribute. Kind of case in point.

The text excludes RI based breweries, I don't understand the problem....

I dont even know where to start with this.

1. Lets lead with the distributors and retailers not being defended. Liquor lobby is only overmatched by the teamsters. They are constantly blocking stuff left and right. Centrex basically IS the distributors. Those three Distributors M&M Horizon and RID are somewhere in the range of 75% of all distributed alc in the state, and when you look at just beer its in the 90s, all of which is delivered by the teamsters through centrex. A couple thousand cases a year in craft beer is a literal drop in the ocean.
2. As far as retailers and distributors not making money. There are for sure some liquor stores not making much, those stores though are A. not selling much craft beer and B. usually being suffocated by another larger conglomerate of stores. The other stores are making TONS of money especially in the last 3 years. SPEAKING of loop holes and licenses, How is it that the haxtons, Guptas, heritage and several other retailers, can skirt the rules and get several licenses through family buying? The distributors are also making LOADS of money and two of the three big ones have distributors in multiple states, all of which (except RI) have self distribution and it doesn't seem to be making a dent in thier bottom lines
3. leveling the playing field. That is exactly what self distribution does. It allows breweries to sell 15 barrels of beer a quarter and get healthy margins for them. Meanwhile the distributors and retailers are still selling 2 or 3 times that of corona, bud, miller etc a day.
4. Retailers grew far far far more 2019-2023 than any other segment of the industry.
5. Lastly, the retailers really don't care about this at all, it allows them to sell more local product. Which is one reason why they are not mentioned here. They are however VERY afraid of the teamsters since they were protesting in front of their stores when they took deliveries last year from MS walker. they are more concerned with stop and shop and nip legislation.

not the house bill.

I don't even know where to start with this.

1. The liquor lobby is going to defend its industry. Why would it not? No one else outside of the organization that is paid to defend the industry defends the liquor stores or distributors. That's my point.
2. I did not say retailers and distributors are not making money, but you clearly don't know many retailers. Or distributors. The few boom years of covid were an anomaly, and only for some, and much of the money made did not translate into profits because of tariffs and shipping costs, as well as rising cost of labor. You think retailers make money on beer?? Hahahaha. No. I 'm pretty sure I addressed the stores skirting the rules with multiple licenses; they should not be allowed to do that, but they are because they have the cash and the connections with politicians. In no way does this help small, independent retailers, those to which I refer.
3. Self distribution does not level the playing field. Generally it's been retailers who are the first and loudest cheerleaders for local brewers, it's odd to pit them against one another. But how much money do you think retailers make on Corona, Bud, Miller, etc? Those are loss-leaders. Yikes. The profits are often less than the cost to keep them cold.
4. Which laws do you think have been changed in favor of *small* retailers over the last decade or so, and which laws do you think should or could be changed to benefit retailers in the future? I'm assuming you are aware that independent liquor stores have been squeezed to the brink and forced out of business in more than one state due to large corporations changing the rules in favor of themselves. One case recently went all the way to the Supreme Court, in fact, where state's rights and small business lost. Oh so ironically.
5. Lastly, I don't know if retailers do or don't care about this ONE SPECIFIC BILL but the point is that retailers have faced an onslaught of bills and apparently they are supposed to sit back quietly while their livelihoods die by a thousand shallow cuts. The optimal thing would be an industry that respects each other, for the public to understand what it is that is at stake for individual *small* businesses (and therefore the neighborhoods in which they are located) and ideally, for a rising tide to lift all boats. But apparently that is not the ocean we're sailing in.

Not sure how retailers became the focus of this back and forth, But first, I know more about the distributors than just about anyone other than the morans, mancinis or epstiens/rubensteins. As for the retailers, due to my intimate knowledge of the distributors, I know just about every major player in retail, and as I said, they actually don't care about this bill, some even oppose it. As for future legislation, the retailers need protecting. Keeping stop and shop etc out and defending them against the deposit/nips crap is a priority. I want to reiterate, these licenses are 100% legal and they are trying to take away these licenses that were legally obtained. No laws need to be changed for the retailers. How does self distro hurt retailers? It allows more local beer to be sold directly to them, and for better prices mind you.

This bill is about the teamsters and distributors coming for the breweries who have finally gotten to a point where they are running meaningful businesses, employing hundreds of people. They are trying to keep RI from adapting to a industry that has completely changed in the last 15 years. Basically every state has, why can't we? I don't see the breweries trying to change the amount they can sell or anything, (at least at this time) this is about selling more be TO THE RETAILERS. Honestly I think the retailers and the breweries are kinda on the same side here. Also, the teamsters are in support of the severely damaging bill for nips/bottle deposits. Retailers should be focused on that.

anywho! I am asking for this groups support in the name of craft brewers. Reach out to our reps in opposition to this bill!

Well, I too have intimate knowledge of the industry, from basically all sides, spanning multiple decades and states. Almost every new law hurts retailers. It became about retailers when there was the obligatory "evil retailers lining their pockets" comment somewhere on this thread. Brewers have gotten many laws passed in their favor over the past few years. Good for them! I honestly mean that. Who doesn't love a vibrant brewery scene? If they grow their self-distribution side, it won't necessarily hurt retailers but it also won't sell more beer, the brewers will just keep more of the profit. At least the ones who can self-distribute. Those who are able to afford trucks, warehouses, drivers, etc...and then suddenly the playing field is no longer level. And the real question, as always, is what of the slippery slope? Again, it always leads to more losses for the retailers.

You are correct, the nips/bottle deposit bill is very damaging to retailers, as is the grocery/convenience store bill that is currently alive and seems to come up every year now, it's just potentially a different palm to grease each time.

So I guess if the grocery bill (H5415) doesn't pass this year, I'm asking for support in protecting retailers the next time it is on our doorstep. Probably 6 months from now. And to not assume that your neighbors who toil their lives away in dusty liquor stores, working long hours with few days off and fewer vacations, are somehow multimillionaires just slumming it for the fun of it.

This puts breweries at parity with wineries and distilleries. They turned an advantage into a thriving industry, now they can play by the same rules.

Don’t like it, lift the rules and everyone can own their distribution.

We deserve this exception because… is not a compelling argument here, especially when OP is warning about how this could gasp lead to sales in gas stations and grocery stores!

Everyone is for unions until it costs them a buck.