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arguchik t1_iw48031 wrote

Reply to comment by Gill03 in I'm looking to become more involved in climate justice in W. PA... by Extreme_Qwerty

It's good to have science behind you. Evidence based claims are crucial. But you don't win by having the best ideas. (Hello, have you seen US politics over the last 50 years??) You win by building a movement, i.e. through organizing.

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arguchik t1_iw489pu wrote

In a nutshell, "building a movement" = "building power," just to be clear. If you don't have money power, organizing is the way to build people power.

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Gill03 t1_iw4xqub wrote

I don’t know what to say to you…. You aren’t acknowledging what I am saying. Winning an election doesn’t do shit if there is no plan to do anything.

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arguchik t1_iw5mxs4 wrote

Maybe because I’m talking about organizing, not electoral politics. Organizing is how you build power to put pressure on decision makers, whether they are in elected or corporate positions of power.

ETA but yes, you need a plan. Organizing gets you a say in what decisions are made.

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Gill03 t1_iw5n43o wrote

The only thing you could possibly win here is my assumption that you all plan on going around being annoying assholes to “raise awareness”. Which I have yet to be disproven on, and you certainly are not convincing me otherwise.

I don’t think you understand how this country works or how politics or legislation works.

Or what the consequence of “pressure” are. Back to counter productive activism.

You don’t even know what you are pressuring for or how to achieve it. As the solution to what you want does not exist. What is so hard about that concept. Who are you pressuring, and for what purpose?

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arguchik t1_iw7807i wrote

Damn. You’re right. I’m just a total moron. :::sadface:::

Ok, sarcasm aside. Do you think a dismissive and insulting comment like that is going to have the effect you’re going for. Whatever that is…because I can’t tell. From where I’m sitting you just look like an asshole.

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Gill03 t1_iw9fmw6 wrote

Projection.

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arguchik t1_iw9rmdr wrote

Thanks, Sigmund.

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Gill03 t1_iw9tu8j wrote

You should read some Freud. Maybe this wouldn't have had to go past the counter productive activism point you all conveniently leaped past.

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arguchik t1_iwa85u2 wrote

I’ve read a lot of Freud. Lacan too.

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Gill03 t1_iwadx6c wrote

Lacan eh? Are you a Marxist? They have a long history of misinterpreting him is why I ask. I find it hard to believe that you are a fan of psychology but feel acting like an asshole in public somehow furthers your cause.

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arguchik t1_iwbqyn6 wrote

Depends on what you mean by “Marxist.” Like Freud’s work, Marx and Engel’s work is mostly useful today for cultural studies analysis, rather than psychology or economics, respectively. In that sense, yes I’m a Marxist but not a pure Marxist. I don’t adhere to the materialism/idealism binary. I have graduate training in cultural studies - ABD because I became a union organizer instead of an academic. That’s how I know that organizing can win meaningful material change for real people. It has been kinda fun sparring with you but it’s Monday now, and I have work to do. Ciao.

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Gill03 t1_iwds9va wrote

Unions have a purpose. A+B=C

Crazy how I figured that out though huh? Almost like I know what I am talking about.

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arguchik t1_iwe5rqf wrote

Never said you didn’t. That was what you said about me, remember?

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Gill03 t1_iwe6x9h wrote

I still don't believe you do and you have done nothing to show me otherwise.

I guessed you are into marxism based off your citing Lacan and your blatant belief in revolutionary activism, when Marxism failed the same way you guys always do. One not having a real plan, and two, thinking people are just going to agree with rhetoric blindly. It's why communists had to kill millions of people and people deliberately eat more meat and buy gas guzzlers to piss you off.

Collective utopianism is a failed ideology, it doesn't work. Radicalism creates reactionaries.

If you disagree with any of this go find any video on here with activists "putting pressure" on random people and find me one where people are supporting their actions. More importantly, find one where there was a successful outcome.

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arguchik t1_iwer2fz wrote

I think I have the measure of you. There’s no point in talking further.

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Gill03 t1_iwersxb wrote

mmmm authoritarianism. I didn't have to figure you out, remember that and I can safely assume whatever you think is wrong. I don't fit in boxes, by design.

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