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Gill03 t1_iw1opgu wrote

Reply to comment by burritoace in I'm looking to become more involved in climate justice in W. PA... by Extreme_Qwerty

No it's a practical and scientific problem wtf are you talking about? No one has figured out how to actually implement the things you are yelling about and the people yelling about have no clue what they are talking about. Politics? WTF? Who has figured out how to do anything you think will fix it? Show me.

Every solution so far has worse byproducts than the problem trying to be fixed. For example batteries are really really really bad for the environment, also they require precious metals, that are not called precious because they are cute.

Science has made leaps and bounds fixing these problems, you people have done nothing.

Go be an activist scientist, chanting in groups is easier though right?

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arguchik t1_iw48031 wrote

It's good to have science behind you. Evidence based claims are crucial. But you don't win by having the best ideas. (Hello, have you seen US politics over the last 50 years??) You win by building a movement, i.e. through organizing.

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arguchik t1_iw489pu wrote

In a nutshell, "building a movement" = "building power," just to be clear. If you don't have money power, organizing is the way to build people power.

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Gill03 t1_iw4xqub wrote

I don’t know what to say to you…. You aren’t acknowledging what I am saying. Winning an election doesn’t do shit if there is no plan to do anything.

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arguchik t1_iw5mxs4 wrote

Maybe because I’m talking about organizing, not electoral politics. Organizing is how you build power to put pressure on decision makers, whether they are in elected or corporate positions of power.

ETA but yes, you need a plan. Organizing gets you a say in what decisions are made.

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Gill03 t1_iw5n43o wrote

The only thing you could possibly win here is my assumption that you all plan on going around being annoying assholes to “raise awareness”. Which I have yet to be disproven on, and you certainly are not convincing me otherwise.

I don’t think you understand how this country works or how politics or legislation works.

Or what the consequence of “pressure” are. Back to counter productive activism.

You don’t even know what you are pressuring for or how to achieve it. As the solution to what you want does not exist. What is so hard about that concept. Who are you pressuring, and for what purpose?

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arguchik t1_iw7807i wrote

Damn. You’re right. I’m just a total moron. :::sadface:::

Ok, sarcasm aside. Do you think a dismissive and insulting comment like that is going to have the effect you’re going for. Whatever that is…because I can’t tell. From where I’m sitting you just look like an asshole.

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Gill03 t1_iw9fmw6 wrote

Projection.

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arguchik t1_iw9rmdr wrote

Thanks, Sigmund.

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Gill03 t1_iw9tu8j wrote

You should read some Freud. Maybe this wouldn't have had to go past the counter productive activism point you all conveniently leaped past.

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arguchik t1_iwa85u2 wrote

I’ve read a lot of Freud. Lacan too.

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Gill03 t1_iwadx6c wrote

Lacan eh? Are you a Marxist? They have a long history of misinterpreting him is why I ask. I find it hard to believe that you are a fan of psychology but feel acting like an asshole in public somehow furthers your cause.

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arguchik t1_iwbqyn6 wrote

Depends on what you mean by “Marxist.” Like Freud’s work, Marx and Engel’s work is mostly useful today for cultural studies analysis, rather than psychology or economics, respectively. In that sense, yes I’m a Marxist but not a pure Marxist. I don’t adhere to the materialism/idealism binary. I have graduate training in cultural studies - ABD because I became a union organizer instead of an academic. That’s how I know that organizing can win meaningful material change for real people. It has been kinda fun sparring with you but it’s Monday now, and I have work to do. Ciao.

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Gill03 t1_iwds9va wrote

Unions have a purpose. A+B=C

Crazy how I figured that out though huh? Almost like I know what I am talking about.

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arguchik t1_iwe5rqf wrote

Never said you didn’t. That was what you said about me, remember?

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Gill03 t1_iwe6x9h wrote

I still don't believe you do and you have done nothing to show me otherwise.

I guessed you are into marxism based off your citing Lacan and your blatant belief in revolutionary activism, when Marxism failed the same way you guys always do. One not having a real plan, and two, thinking people are just going to agree with rhetoric blindly. It's why communists had to kill millions of people and people deliberately eat more meat and buy gas guzzlers to piss you off.

Collective utopianism is a failed ideology, it doesn't work. Radicalism creates reactionaries.

If you disagree with any of this go find any video on here with activists "putting pressure" on random people and find me one where people are supporting their actions. More importantly, find one where there was a successful outcome.

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arguchik t1_iwer2fz wrote

I think I have the measure of you. There’s no point in talking further.

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Gill03 t1_iwersxb wrote

mmmm authoritarianism. I didn't have to figure you out, remember that and I can safely assume whatever you think is wrong. I don't fit in boxes, by design.

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dudeman4win t1_iw27u57 wrote

I mean you’re pretty spot on

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burritoace t1_iw2altq wrote

Not even close

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dudeman4win t1_iw2apwl wrote

I’ve been in the trenches fighting fracking and can tell you yelling and screaming helps nothing

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arguchik t1_iw48gjr wrote

You don't win by having the best arguments, nor "yelling and screaming." You win through organizing: building power. If you have enough people willing to go to the mat on an issue, you can shut. shit. down.

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Gill03 t1_iw4z65v wrote

How does shutting shot down solve climate issues? This isn’t the Vietnam war. No one is hiding the solution or stopping it, it doesn’t exist.

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arguchik t1_iw5ncsl wrote

If you have no plan and no hope, why do you want to do anything about climate change? Or maybe you don’t? I can’t tell.

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Gill03 t1_iw5ogh4 wrote

I support people who aren’t annoying obnoxious morons and are actually DOING positive things, as opposed to being annoying and self righteous. I like to live in reality and not terrorist hippy hypocrisy land.

How about you actually get educated on what you so passionately believe in and present it in a way where people won’t think you’re a stupid asshole? Crazy logic right?

So when people ask you questions you don’t have to rely on hyperbole, rhetoric, and nonsensical solutions to defend yourself.

Who do you think looks at your groups and says we should listen to these people? Who? Why would they?

Answer that, why should people care what you have to say? Because you are yelling?

Steve Irwin, huge activist, everyone loved the dude, did massive good, changed the game on animal conservation. Wasn’t an annoying obnoxious chanting idiot. Passionate and educated. Be like him.

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burritoace t1_iw2axtj wrote

That's nonsense. Nobody is saying it's not the whole solution but the movement against fracking in PA does not exist without angry people standing up. Eventually they end up electing politicians who take steps to reduce drilling - that's exactly how it works. It's not like scientists have stopped fracking here lol.

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arguchik t1_iw48qq2 wrote

Anger by itself does nothing. You need strategy, persistence, and people who have enough hope to believe that change is possible.

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Gill03 t1_iw4yk4u wrote

I like that you are actually telling someone who does something that they don’t exist and are wrong based on nothing lol

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burritoace t1_iw5d5hp wrote

Lol what on earth are you babbling about

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Gill03 t1_iw5f9dn wrote

You arguing against common sense and reality.

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burritoace t1_iw5g5kp wrote

Lol please go shout into the wind on somebody else's comments

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Gill03 t1_iw5gav3 wrote

he was talking to me and you interjected there crazy projection machine.

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burritoace t1_iw5glu1 wrote

Man you're just full of silly complaints

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Gill03 t1_iw5h2j0 wrote

you are not a fan of reality and self-awareness.

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burritoace t1_iw5hb3j wrote

No idea what you're still going on about but you seem awfully confident about it so don't let me stop you

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Gill03 t1_iw5ho3v wrote

last word, gotta get it right? You know I recognize your name right. Is this going to be a thing?

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Gill03 t1_iw4yezt wrote

Thank you them taking offense to this really shows their intelligence and what it is really about.

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