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Akieboy t1_j1nlbm4 wrote

If they Google "black Madonna" there are a lot of them for sale online.

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rhapsodygreen OP t1_j1nlmn9 wrote

Christmas '23 gift ideas

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Akieboy t1_j1no32w wrote

The black Madonna in Europe dates back to at least the 12th century. They are most commonly found in the Spanish style. True African madonnas have been unfortunately mostly ignored outside of Africa.

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Shot-Dog-3824 t1_j1nsed0 wrote

They couldn’t find a dark skinned Virgin Mary because it doesn’t exist. Extremely racist

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An_Lei_Laoshi t1_j1o8ick wrote

The completely milk white Virgin Mary most commonly portrayed is faithful /s I'm European and I'm not so white

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Shot-Dog-3824 t1_j1o9ak9 wrote

Misportraying these characters is still sacrilege

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Bekiala t1_j1oivwb wrote

Well Mary has commonly been mis-portrayed as white and blond. I don't see this as sacrilege but it does seem a bit misleading.

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the_honeyman t1_j1q6v6c wrote

Do you think Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were white? Because that's the real sacrilege here.

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tesseract4 t1_j1qlwnj wrote

Mary, if she was actually a real person who lived, was certainly not white, so I don't see how portraying her as other than white could be "sacreligious". I mean, the rules of religion are all made up anyway, so if you wanna go that route you certainly can, I just figured you wouldn't want to acknowledge that.

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BananaButtock t1_j1niibr wrote

Look for statues of “My Lady of Częstochowa.” IIRC, she’s darker-skinned.

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Video-Human t1_j1ns64v wrote

>My Lady of Częstochowa

Our Lady of Guidance would be much closer.

Fun Fact: She's the one Filipinos in LA go to for speedy approval of US visas.

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Rd28T t1_j1pl4pc wrote

There’s a Polish church down the road from my house in Australia named for her.

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Direct_Ambassador_10 t1_j1nhf54 wrote

She might need a second coat? But in all seriousness I think this is fine...? If you can't find one why not make it and save everyone some time in the process.

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rhapsodygreen OP t1_j1nhp2g wrote

Yeah, I image its easier to find a black Jesus cross than a black Mary anything

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Direct_Ambassador_10 t1_j1ni6go wrote

Yeah if anything it's still racist that they only sell white Mary's. Not a believer in all of that but it seems like geographically people from that area wouldn't be snow white. But Im not an expert or anything.

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jlnxr t1_j1nluzs wrote

It's typical for Jesus/Mary/biblical scenes to be portrayed in different styles based on the culture of the group. "White Jesus" (or Mary) is just a reflection of European culture. My understanding (raised Catholic) is that it's perfectly acceptable to make them whatever race, whatever style clothing, time period, etc. if done in a respectful matter. Advisable even, if it benefits the faith.

That would be mainstream churches that allow image veneration though. Some smaller sects are of the "plain cross" types where images are frowned upon. There was a giant conflict about images in the Byzantine Empire and the image venerators won out, only to have some protestants revisit the issue much later.

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this_barb t1_j1npmx9 wrote

Yea, Korean Jesus has a 12 pack and breaks Saiyan scouters.

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jst3w t1_j1o81i8 wrote

Korean Jesus sings and dances in sold out stadiums with his 12 bffs.

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gc3 t1_j1nsxy5 wrote

How about star wars outfits?

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Cephalopodio t1_j1p03wa wrote

Before the show American Gods was robbed of its best storylines (RIP Mr. Nancy), they had appearances by all the Jesuses. Loved it.

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brainburger t1_j1nokmj wrote

> is that it's perfectly acceptable to make them whatever race, whatever style clothing, time period, etc. if done in a respectful matter.

Hmm. It does make one wonder about the prospect of other black historical figures portrayed by white actors, and so on. We wouldn't accept a white Nelson Mandela.

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pogotc t1_j1nrrcj wrote

No, but then Nelson Mandela isn’t a fictional character.

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brainburger t1_j1pspc5 wrote

Generally the portrayal of historic or traditional black characters, by white actors is now firmly frowned-upon. Jesus is treated as a special exception. This is probably because there are just so many portrayals of him as white that it has normalized if for most Christians. It is worth considering whether its time for this to change in new portrayals. Religion should not be immune to advances n morality.

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Bubbagumpredditor t1_j1nsv7b wrote

Well, that's also a character where his ethnicity is a main point of his story.

Like a black guy playing Winston Churchill might not be historically accurate, but his ethnicity is not a main point of the story.

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brainburger t1_j1pri31 wrote

> Well, that's also a character where his ethnicity is a main point of his story.

The Jewishness of Jesus is a very important aspect of his story though. That is erased by the typical European portrayal of him.

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Hoelie t1_j1q2d7v wrote

He should look less white for sure. Like bernie Sanders

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jlnxr t1_j1ofg3t wrote

Well sure it would be pretty offense to have a white Nelson Mandela, but people seemed cool with a black Alexander Hamilton. Turns out, context matters.

In any case if you believe Jesus is literally God incarnate his race is probably not that important, even if historical Jesus (which even secular scholars generally agree existed) was obviously a middle eastern jew.

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brainburger t1_j1prb9o wrote

> Well sure it would be pretty offense to have a white Nelson Mandela, but people seemed cool with a black Alexander Hamilton. Turns out, context matters.

As you might be aware its not the practice of cross-racial portrayal that is problematic in itself. It's not quite the same when a black actor plays a white person, as when a white actor plays a black person. The difference is that 'blackface' alludes to the systematic oppression of black people, and 'minstrel' performing. There is not the same connotation when it is the other way around.

In the case of Jesus, there is some attempt at erasure going on, certainly historically. It seems white Christians often don't like the prospect of being saved by a middle-Eastern Jew so they tend to obscure the fact in Christian art. (or at least that is a valid uncharitable interpretation) . In contrast we would not find it acceptable to present an alternate history of South Africa in which universal suffrage was obtained using the lifelong activism and sacrifice of a white man.

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Jsimpson059 t1_j1oi2ow wrote

Nelson Mandela is a modern historical figure, we literally have pictures of likeness to go off of, living memory of him, his ethnicity is an undeniable part of his identity, we dont know anything about Jesus other than an accounts by authors after the fact compiling his teachings from oral to written accounts.

There is a reason why the western personifcation of God and Zues have similar designs.

Also during the reniassance there would be other political redesigns such as the more modern look of Jesus being based off of I shit you not Cesare Borgia.

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brainburger t1_j1ps83k wrote

> Nelson Mandela is a modern historical figure, we literally have pictures of likeness to go off of, living memory of him, his ethnicity is an undeniable part of his identity, we dont know anything about Jesus other than an accounts by authors after the fact compiling his teachings from oral to written accounts.

That does occur to me, but we have a pretty good idea what Jesus should look like, and he is often portrayed in a way which we know cannot be accurate. In the past when people did not travel as easily some mis-representation is understandable. It makes sense for people in the UK, say, to portray the fruit from the Adam and Eve story as an apple, as the audience wouldn't know what a fig, or many of the other candidate fruits looked like.

I do think, in all seriousness, it is time we stopped making new portrayals of Jesus as a white man. He wasn't a white man. It really shouldn't cause any problems to show him as a middle Eastern Jew.

>I shit you not Cesare Borgia.

TIL thanks.

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that_other_goat t1_j1oeify wrote

To be fair there's nothing in the bible that says mary and jesus weren't albinos.

LOL

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histosol t1_j1nknz1 wrote

Yes, we’re realizing religion is BS, good.

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Deyvicous t1_j1qbnvh wrote

Which area? Italy? Israel? Turkey? Last I checked that whole area is filled with a lot of white people. Sure, maybe they tan a bit more on average, but….

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BobbyLeeBob t1_j1pjw86 wrote

Yes it is racism and done deliberately. The government needs to regulate Christian statues because of all the discrimination /s

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Irate_Alligate1 t1_j1nonwl wrote

Well you try telling a bunch of pasty-faced barbarians that, not only are their gods a lie, but the true god is brown-skinned.

And I say this as a (former) Catholic pasty-faced barbarian.

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ElLocoS t1_j1nvp1v wrote

Brazilian patron saint is "Nossa Senhora Aparecida", and she is basicly Mary appearing as a black woman with beautifull blue dress. Look it up. You can find hundreds online.

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Jonny_Entropy t1_j1nsi84 wrote

Mary wasn't black though. She was Judean, which would have resembled middle Eastern. If she existed, of course.

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Boop7482286 t1_j1prcry wrote

Ya and Jesus was a brown Jew but everyone in America has whitewashed pictures/ sculptures of him.

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SiebeWobke t1_j1pve9l wrote

Yes and in Africa it's black Jesus and in Asia asian jesus. It's still just a fantasy character.

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Dougwasneverfunny t1_j1nicnl wrote

They should get into warhammer and next year they can paint a more convincing black person.

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Agent-Gosdepa-USA t1_j1oecrp wrote

Imagine a comment section if someone put a white paint on black figure

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OrcEight t1_j1r5prn wrote

Well that is essentially what we have with brown skinned Jesus being portrayed as white.

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elm_arbol t1_j1nghnr wrote

The Virgin of Montserrat

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JezCon t1_j1nh696 wrote

You work with what you got.

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cdnsalix t1_j1oualf wrote

Justin Trudeau has entered the chat.

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RafaNedel t1_j1on38g wrote

Search for Nossa Senhora Aparecida

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wholesomeletters t1_j1ouobf wrote

tbh I like it. If you cant find someone like you to look up to make them yourself. I imagen alot of cartoon/anime/manga stuff got made like this. Like Sailor Moon? Hercreator was a young woman with no friends and made the sailorwarriors like someone she wants to be friends with.

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Exciting_Ad_3510 t1_j1qdj0d wrote

Color only matters to mankind... it means nothing to our Heavenly Father

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ryan7251 t1_j1nqwc7 wrote

ironic you can't find a dark skinned mary

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RogueStudio t1_j1nsms4 wrote

Oof...personally I'd keep my trap shut and let my parents do to their own belongings as they like, but, you already put it on the internet where all the fools, critics and keyboard analysts can talk about your misfortune. Have a good holiday lol 😂

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cloudubious t1_j1ovyv7 wrote

Did... did they have to strip her al la Barbie dolls to paint her? Seems... a bad idea.

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Danzarr t1_j1peuqp wrote

for some reason, popo comes to mind.

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Endetzero711 t1_j1py680 wrote

Jesus and virgin Mary are all the colours, merry christmas

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1redditname t1_j1pzxpb wrote

In Sicily there is a majestic cathedral dedicated to ‘Madonna del Tindari’, take a look it’s stunning!

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Lilluzzo t1_j1qgg7p wrote

Hi, search for "Madonna di tindari"

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werres123 t1_j1qh4af wrote

thats not offensive?

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Fun_Cow_8882 t1_j1qj5j4 wrote

That’s cause it doesn’t work or exist fool, Virgin Mary was white let that sink in and remember it.

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Eyeseeyous t1_j1qj71j wrote

No harm done since there is no god. Carry on. Happy holidays.

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chaotichistory t1_j1qks8z wrote

I work retail and the first year we carried a full size dancing Santa we only got a white Santa in so someone bought one and used wood stain to color it a lovely yet streak filled bronze. Then it broke and for some reason we took it back.

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epicmenio t1_j1ql03s wrote

Just like in the bible, everything is fixed by the writer or by situations, or even the translator.

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azdoggnaro t1_j1r1k3j wrote

Saint Calogero is a saint celebrated in southern Italy. He is normally depicted as being black (I say it this way because it’s not certain if he was or not). There are massive festivals and all kinds of statues dedicated to him.

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wefelltogether t1_j1p5ryg wrote

I’m not Christian or anything but I think that looks pretty dope actually. However insensitive it may be, at least your parents don’t give a fuck enough to do it.

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ftwtidder t1_j1pct48 wrote

I’m okay with that! 😎

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ninja_toffe t1_j1pz33p wrote

Wait so your Disneying religious figures God damn

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elpajaroquemamais t1_j1q9fox wrote

Appropriate use of blackface to make it historically accurate.

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[deleted] t1_j1npdvw wrote

[deleted]

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Koffeebreaknow t1_j1nqu0c wrote

Yes she actually gets to pick and choose. It's hers figure.

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Odd_Imagination_6617 t1_j1nqw1r wrote

Not how religion works

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The_Countess t1_j1nsk3r wrote

No, that's actually exactly how religion works.

European mary is white because most Christians there are white.

Ethiopian mary is black because most of the Christians there are black.

Korean's have a Korean Jesus, and I'm assuming their mary similarly looks Korean.

In reality, if she ever existed, she would have look middle eastern.

The only time you see a disconnect there is when a religion was brought to a area by a outside influence (like European powers to much of Africa)

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wuguwa t1_j1o0q2b wrote

Okay, well what color does the Bible say Jesus is? Blond hair and blue eyes? I’ve got an M.Div. I’ll wait.

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[deleted] t1_j1nwg8j wrote

Good thing fictional characters can look like whatever we want

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[deleted] t1_j1rjt8q wrote

[deleted]

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chalisa0 t1_j1niw7q wrote

Haha. I think it's awesome!

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Tainted-Archer t1_j1o384d wrote

Aren’t most statues of Mary white-facing considering she was from the Middle East?

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rhapsodygreen OP t1_j1o3ldv wrote

You mean "whitewashing", "white-facing" would me you took a statue that was intended to be a different color by the artist and and took paint or makeup or something to make the statue look fair-skinned

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buntopolis t1_j1o7jpa wrote

When in Rome…?

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coded_artist t1_j1pghaz wrote

Its almost like their religion was used to enslave them.

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Girly_Shrieks t1_j1qdn82 wrote

You specify your parents are African. So why do they observe a religion which is meant to control? Specifically as a tool to further break down black people over the last couple hundred years?

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rhapsodygreen OP t1_j1nh6jc wrote

Honestly, if any one knows where this post should go lmk

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CapeManiac t1_j1nqr9k wrote

gif

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wuguwa t1_j1o0a5p wrote

Fuck off. It’s not in the least.

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KakashiHatakesWife t1_j1ng93u wrote

Are your parents black?

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wuguwa t1_j1np4ru wrote

Is there any other scenario you could think of where this would be the end result?

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Taleya t1_j1nr8a0 wrote

No they didn't, they un-whitewashed

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The_Countess t1_j1nrrt2 wrote

They did significantly overcompensate into the other direction though.

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Taleya t1_j1nrxy6 wrote

Got a thousand odd-years damage to undo, requires going hard.

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