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EducatorBig6648 t1_j6aaqil wrote

Reply to comment by jank_ram in Cosmic nihilism, existential joy | Human consciousness, and our need for meaning in a meaningless world, is the source of both tragic pessimism and the intense joy we take in life. by IAI_Admin

>Let's think of the universe not in terms of the observable universe, rather the potential universe, no just what Is, bit what ever could be in all dimensions, since it is logically the same thing if you take your subjective experience out of it, in what way ever does it resemble where we live that universe? Infact in what way is it differentiated from absolute nothing, if there is no observer which "rules the earth" in announcing to himself what is meaningful pulling a concrete ground in utter chaos.

There is no such thing as "chaos". "Chaos" would have zero patterns and thus no existence. It's kind like you saying there is a molecule that has zero atoms, I can have a concept of that in my head but it makes no sense.

Your "observer announcing to himself" is irrelevant. Every tiny detail of the universe (past, present, future, alive or dead) plays its role in making this universe this universe and not just a similar potential one, and that is meaningful. The distance between the Earth and the Sun is such a detail and it played a role in you and I having this conversation right now and your "announcing observer" has no say in that.

>If it doesn't center around you then what does it center around, nothing?

That's misunderstanding what I mean by it not revolving around us organisms, bordering on strawman argument. I simply mean that if we had nuked ourselves into extinction in the 1960s or if this planet had never sustained life then the universe would be just as valid as it is now. Just as this universe is valid without 8 billion green Martians living on Mars at this time.

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jank_ram t1_j6axjyj wrote

I argue that consciousness is the only validator possible, since it's probably v a validator by definition, think of it as, something doesn't exist until it's validated by a consciousness, and when it does, it only exist to that consciousness. In other words if (and if it's possible) a consciousness dies the universe which it validated dies. I think you are saying something exists to the extent of it's relation to other things since that's what a pattern is, but I argue, says who? Without validation there is no existence. Correct me if I am wrong in my understanding

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LogMeInCoach t1_j6bvjzx wrote

The sun existed for billions of years before we became conscious. If our entire civilization would be wiped out tomorrow, the sun would still continue to exist for billions of years without a conscience to validate it.

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EducatorBig6648 t1_j6c4wkg wrote

>The sun existed for billions of years before we became conscious. If our entire civilization would be wiped out tomorrow, the sun would still continue to exist for billions of years without a conscience to validate it.

In the sense of "We are not held in illusion", yes, absolutely.

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