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ValyrianJedi t1_j5kli4k wrote

Reply to comment by Hollywoo-celebrities in "Understand the philosophy of a place and you'll understand its culture" | Julian Baggini explores how to approach non-Western philosophies, without exoticizing, essentalising or domesticating by IAI_Admin

I can use what I sold over there as an example. Sold corporate financial analytics software...

In the U.S. you're almost always selling bottom line. "This software will make your employees get work done faster so you save money". Over there you're much better off with "this product will reduce human error, making your results better". And over there you never say that it can replace employees. You say that it gives employees a tool to make them better at their job...

I had one particular company that had people inputting thousands upon thousands of blocks of financial data by hand. A software that they already had could have automated it, so without them even needing to pay anything I was like "in 10 minutes we can have your software set up to draw data automatically and input it from place A to place B, so that you won't have to pay people hundreds of man hours in salary to do it". And their response was basically "we can't do that. Inputting that data is someone's job, and to take it from them would dishonor both us and them". Where obviously pretty much anywhere in the West the response would be "hell yeah, sign me up"...

And they are really really focused on tradition. Like every company I worked with over there (and this was just like 3-4 years ago) would fax documents to the front desk at my hotel to get them to me instead of emailing. Because fax is what they've always done...

It takes a lot of getting used to, but they are so religious with it that once you are used to it you can count on expected responses almost 100% of the time .

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Benderesco t1_j5l33cm wrote

> I had one particular company that had people inputting thousands upon thousands of blocks of financial data by hand. A software that they already had could have automated it, so without them even needing to pay anything I was like "in 10 minutes we can have your software set up to draw data automatically and input it from place A to place B, so that you won't have to pay people hundreds of man hours in salary to do it". And their response was basically "we can't do that. Inputting that data is someone's job, and to take it from them would dishonor both us and them". Where obviously pretty much anywhere in the West the response would be "hell yeah, sign me up"...

I can confirm that they behave like this, yes. And frankly, to me it always seemed to be a much better mindset.

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AKravr t1_j5lgwyq wrote

And this is where the cultural breakdown happens lol. You read that and saw. "Oh, they respect their employees and because of their honor they won't automate them." When what he's really saying, and what a Japanese businessman is saying, is.

"By verbalizing this decision we lose face/honor." They all know that automation will decrease employment but you never acknowledge or verbalize the matter!

Like the poster gave as an example, you say "it reduces human error." They are intelligent, they know it also means decreasing needed employees, again, you just don't say the quiet part out loud.

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Benderesco t1_j5llran wrote

I know full well what they mean. I'm partially japanese and have already been in the country several times. I also have family there.

Frankly, your last paragraph is a rather hilarious admission that you don't really know much about the country (or its laws). Japanese work culture is brimming with bizarre issues (just google "japanese black companies"), but mass terminations that put workers at risk are not one of them. This also presents its own problems, of course (the ojisan who doesn't work is a classic), but that in no way changes my previous assertion:

>And frankly, to me it always seemed to be a much better mindset

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AKravr t1_j5ls56c wrote

So you haven't worked there? I spent 12 years in a Japanese school and spent 2 years working in a Japanese Consulate, I'm very familiar with the work culture and how they view things.

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AKravr t1_j5lsvjb wrote

The problem with your initial assertion is that it's fundamentally false. There isn't some holy rule that they won't risk their employees' careers or automate them out of a job.

They will make many of the same decisions any classic C suite would make but in a non verbalized way.

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Benderesco t1_j5ltfmd wrote

I have, yes. That's kind of implied by my post.

You claim to have worked there, but you seem to be unaware of japanese laws on terminating employees.

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AKravr t1_j5lxm7j wrote

You should read your own link, because you can get fired after showing financial loss, and I'm well aware of Japanese labor laws. One of my main jobs was facilitating work visas for foreign nationals. But this is all besides the point, nowhere did I posit that mass layoffs are normal.

What I am saying and what you can't seem to comprehend is that Japanese C suites aren't avoiding increasing efficiency and automation in some honor based care for their employees. At least not any more than western ones, what they care about is not verbalizing that dishonor. Even among equals.

There isn't any special difference in the underlying human behavior. It's just how they approach the outward situation.

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UnicornPanties t1_j5mg1uv wrote

So then if a Japanese company has layoffs how do they usually frame that message?

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Benderesco t1_j5mhf8u wrote

>You should read your own link, because you can get fired after showing financial loss, and I'm well aware of Japanese labor laws. One of my main jobs was facilitating work visas for foreign nationals. But this is all besides the point, nowhere did I posit that mass layoffs are normal.

Re-read the entire conversation. You claimed a " cultural breakdown" in a discussion regarding japanese companies not wanting to replace an enormous amount of workers by using software. Getting fired due to financial losses is another matter entirely and, even then, it's not an easy measure, and this is also mentioned in the link.

>What I am saying and what you can't seem to comprehend is that Japanese C suites aren't avoiding increasing efficiency and automation in some honor based care for their employees. At least not any more than western ones, what they care about is not verbalizing that dishonor. Even among equals.

As I've said from my original post, I know very well what they mean. The point here is that terminating workers en masse is seem as a socially unacceptable measure, and that is reflected in how companies approach pitches. And, once again, I consider that a much more admirable mindset. I'm not calling anybody a saint, I'm saying societal structures there are different in this regard, and I consider that a positive thing.

I know I'm repeating myself, but despite your claims that you are an "expert" in japanese matters, this conversation makes it quite likely that you are either not as informed as you claim to be or simply not taking the time to properly read and interpret what is being posted.

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