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Realinternetpoints t1_j4ikvea wrote

Reply to comment by kevinzvilt in What it means to “know” a language by thenousman

Are you saying there is a kiki/boba effect in Arabic? Like, the shape of the sounds hold a meaning that is greater than the definition of the word itself?

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MoDaSilva t1_j4qqiw1 wrote

Yes, exactly. Negative words 'sound' negative and vice versa. For example, wrong is a very strong: خطأ \khtta'a\ while right is a very soft: صح \sah\. The word for strong itself is strong: قوي \qawi\ while soft is: ناعم na'im.

Now try to guess for yourself which word is 'ugly' and which is 'beautiful':

/jameel/ جميل vs. /qabih/ قبيح

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platoprime t1_j4j24jg wrote

That sounds like nonsense given you can attribute any meaning onto a word; it's just a symbol. It's one thing to say a language is beautiful or evocative but the idea that a sound can gain special meaning a word cannot seems silly.

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jmc20kop t1_j4j69i6 wrote

Look it up, studies have been done to show that English speakers find the word kiki to be a sharper object and boba to be more rounded objects

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WeeabooHunter69 t1_j4l59i6 wrote

I'm pretty sure that it was a lot more than just English speakers, right?

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platoprime t1_j4j85wx wrote

Yes because we associate the sharp abrupt sounds in kiki to a sharp object because we use words like sharp and flat to describe sounds. That isn't "the shape of the sounds hold[ing] a meaning that is greater than the definition of the word itself?".

That's just recognizing there are different sounds.

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Realinternetpoints t1_j4jait9 wrote

It’s more than English. Other languages have similar associations with Kiki and boba. It sounds like this person is saying that there are sound associations in Arabic that only make sense to Arabic speakers

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platoprime t1_j4jb6i6 wrote

> there are sound associations in Arabic that only make sense to Arabic speakers

Like words and their connotations? Yeah, I wouldn't describe those as something special and "greater" than the meaning of a word.

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ididntunderstandyou t1_j4kjy3y wrote

Tell me you speak no other language without telling me you speak no other language.

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CheesyPizzaDood t1_j4jxwin wrote

Boba tea bubbles are rounded objects, but I do get your point with kiki.

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TsarKashmere t1_j4j85in wrote

Synesthesia.

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Getjac t1_j4jibgi wrote

Failing to recognize the sensuous quality of words is a failure of perception on your part pal

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platoprime t1_j4j8i21 wrote

It isn't synesthesia; we just use words like sharp and flat to describe sounds so it's only natural to project that meaning onto a word that sounds sharp or flat.

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cesiumatom t1_j4je804 wrote

I am both a native English and native Arabic speaker. Having known both languages since early childhood, and having become proficient in the use of both, I would say that, along with other major differences, Arabic is more of an onomatopeic language than English. A simple example is "Maazah", or sheep. Maa is the sound sheep make, while sheep has nothing to do with with the actual characteristics of that particular animal species. "Sheep", however is phonetically similar to the word "shear", which is the act of cutting the wool away from sheep. I gave this example because it illustrates a difference between newer Western (Old English c. 550AD) and older Eastern (Arabic c. 500CE) languages. In newer languages, words tend to be born of relative object descriptors and functions (this is especially true in Germanic languages), whereas words from older languages tend to be born of feelings, expressions, and heard sounds. This illustrates a key divide in frame of reference between speakers of old and new languages. As the English language pervades much of the East today, these subtleties of native languages are being lost, though it is indeed debatable whether what is lost is the beauty without the loss of meaning. Many Eastern traditions view sounds as sacred objects in and of themselves, for example Mantras, which are thought to contain energy and information separate from yet entangled with the meaning of the words. In other words, a word is not just a symbol. Ancient theological texts from many cultures claim that the "word" predates creation, a fascinating proposition, even if you don't believe the stories and myths. If anything, it shows that words can indeed have special meaning to many people, meaning that extends beyond the boundaries of language.

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WeeabooHunter69 t1_j4l6aib wrote

It's interesting seeing languages mingle almost in realtime, and Japanese is a perfect example. They have a whole script primarily for loan words or foreign names and historically have a lot of words adapted from Portuguese, but have been taking more and more from English as the digital age goes on to the point that younger people can use a lot of English words without even being conscious of it. To make things even more complicated, English ends up taking a lot of words that were already loans from english, especially from video games, HP, ring out, level up, etc. Are all words that went from English to Japanese and back and we don't even think about it.

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platoprime t1_j4jp4ob wrote

>If anything, it shows that words can indeed have special meaning to many people, meaning that extends beyond the boundaries of language.

The meanings of words does not extend beyond the boundaries of language.

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