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kfpswf t1_j37lzri wrote

Reply to comment by bxsephjo in The Persistent Problem of Consciousness: an astronaut's epiphany by simsquatched

>I wouldn’t call it a strange twist. I think our history of religious teachings is the reason the idea has so much of a foothold in the first place.

You can't simply ascribe it to "history of religious teachings" without answering why people from Abrahamic faiths usually end up buying into these esoteric philosophies, primarily from the East, when Abrahamic faiths and Dharmic faiths are at such logger heads regarding their core tenets.

I'm from an Abhrahamic faith as well, and I practice Advaita Vedanta now. I can tell you first hand that non-duality was anything but familiar to me. In fact, I found it completely strange, requiring effort to get out of my past conditioning. Of course I later learned that non-dual philosophy isn't limited to Dharmic faiths, that even Abrahamic faiths have profound non-dual philosophies, albeit considered heretical by mainstream.

>Just because we can imagine consciousness existing outside the brain does not give the theory any credence.

I don't know what consciousness centered philosophy you are talking about, but in Advaita, consciousness doesn't exist as an abstract entity in the universe. It requires a biological body to manifest.

I'm sure your take is perhaps based on the claim that universe is conscious, so you assume that this means the entirety of the universe is a conscious entity. That's completely incorrect. If we can use same language, we could also describe the universe as being electrified or magnetized. It simply means that electricity and magnetism are properties of the universe that can manifest under right conditions. Similarly, consciousness is a property of the universe that can manifest under the right conditions (a living biological pod).

The reason this is central model in non-dual philosophies is because, to subside the ego, it is necessary for you to adopt a different identity than that of being the ego. Consciousness is a good neutral ground for you to be able to observe the mind. But unwittingly, this also turns your subjective experience into an enigma. This is what the astronaut experienced.

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ChroniXmile t1_j38oxtp wrote

“That’s completely incorrect”. Show me where in the universe magnetism and electricity do not exist? Or gravity? The idea that consciousness requires a “biological body” only means that it requires electricity. How can you assume consciousness and matter are separate while claiming a non-duality philosophy.

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kfpswf t1_j38ss3m wrote

>Show me where in the universe magnetism and electricity do not exist? Or gravity?

You're right. They exist everywhere, but manifest as electric current or magnetic flux in special cases where certain conditions are met. In other words, these un-manifest phenomenon become manifest.

Similarly, un-manifest consciousness pervades all universe, but manifests in certain conditions, namely, a living biological body.

>The idea that consciousness requires a “biological body” only means that it requires electricity.

Certainly. Consciousness requires all the bells and whistles of the laws of universe. It requires electricity for the nervous systems. It requires fluid dynamics for continuous replenishment of nutrients via vascular system.

>How can you assume consciousness and matter are separate while claiming a non-duality philosophy.

Because we are discussing physical reality, and in this realm, you do need to break-down components to understand a model. But if you are talking about metaphysical reality, then yes, everything is consciousness. In fact, you'll not know anything besides your consciousness your whole life.

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ChroniXmile t1_j393z13 wrote

Electricity is never “un-manifest”ed. It is required for atoms to bond and is present in everything that is matter. Furthermore electricity is present even in non-matter space by fields, where it enjoys the freedom to be and simultaneously to not be aka non-duality via the quantum nature of time.

To say consciousness requires a body is just a religious idea of humans being special. In fact, contrary to the astronauts idea of great religious teachings, this would mean biological creatures are not special and do not partake in special gifts from the gods like consciousness. Similar to how people believed the Earth was the center of the solar system or universe. We move on our own accord? Where do we go? Nowhere, because it’s an illusion of movement. Like the example of a train moving at the speed of light, and a passenger walks from the back to the front… he does not break the light barrier because he is not really moving anywhere.

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