Rethious t1_j2t9pmg wrote
Reply to comment by monkeylogic42 in Look on the dark side | We must keep the flame of pessimism burning: it is a virtue for our deeply troubled times, when crude optimism is a vice by ADefiniteDescription
This attitude is why pessimism leads nowhere but the grave. Every day, tens of millions of people are working to apply existing solutions to mitigate climate change or to develop new ones. You’re even hyperfocusing on certain elements of society to paint covid as a loss, and not as the tremendous achievement of medical science it was to develop safe, effective, and mass produceable vaccines with ground breaking technology.
To say that there is no hope is a self-fulfilling prophecy and does not match the evidence we have.
ShalmaneserIII t1_j2ucv60 wrote
> This attitude is why pessimism leads nowhere but the grave.
I have some bad news about where optimism leads, too.
Rethious t1_j2uglbj wrote
You get to enjoy a more circuitous and fruitful route with optimism.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2v6mlh wrote
No, that's just living in denial. The world is quite literally dying in front of us. We've lost 70% of all wildlife since 1970. There's where your fruitful optimism has gotten us.
Rethious t1_j2vcir0 wrote
It is a fact that wildlife populations have declined. This is a problem to reckoned with, I’d argue more successfully with an optimistic attitude than a pessimistic one.
Evidence shows that people are more greedy than fearful. To convince people to combat climate change, it is more useful to appeal to what they have to gain than what they have to lose.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2vepym wrote
So, being more greedy then fearful, the billionaire class isn't going to change the system. There isn't any immediate gratification to be had in preservation. Everyone just wants to eat that tuna, bycatch be damned.
Rethious t1_j2vfj7r wrote
There doesn’t need to be immediate gratification. There are many ways for climate mitigation solutions to satisfy greed. You get much further selling people a solar-punk future than you do by trying to scare them. Doomsday predictions only convince people its futile to make an effort.
Old_Personality3136 t1_j2w2zns wrote
You misspelled delusional.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2tb82h wrote
Tens of millions in the face of billions and a century of pollution. Are you aware of us being the cause of the 6th mass extinction on earth currently?
Rethious t1_j2tcuhc wrote
Of course. But there’s no circumstance that could make striving to make tomorrow better than today not worthwhile. Regardless of what’s ahead, throwing up our hands benefits no one.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2tef23 wrote
I didn't say throw up your hands, I just said the world isn't going to get it's shit together to avoid the disastrous future that optimists tried to steer us from gently for the last 75 years. Everyone would need to cut most of their fossil fuel usage and plastics about 40 years ago. Since then it's been an exceleration with capitalists on the side dumping money in to 'optimism' for the masses so they can keep profiting. It's just like anytime someone tries to remind everyone we don't have free energy and carbon capture isn't going to save us in time, they get shouted down for being a buzzkill. Like the the global warming episode of always sunny- I don't want just one shot, I want seven! I don't wanna stop! I don't wanna slow down! The world is programmed by consumption and there are too many people. Look up the difference between a million seconds and a billion.
Rethious t1_j2ti12g wrote
Carbon capture and free energy won’t save us, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be invested in. It’s a fine line in that they’re both essential and deserve heavy investment, but shouldn’t be used as an excuse to neglect conservation efforts.
Optimism doesn’t mean being in denial about the challenges we face.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2tkv7t wrote
Where are the conservation efforts? There are so little it may as well be 0. As far as what optimism means, it kind of is denial:
op·ti·mism /ˈäptəˌmiz(ə)m/ noun 1. hopefulness and confidence about the future or the successful outcome of something.
PHILOSOPHY the doctrine, especially as set forth by Leibniz, that this world is the best of all possible worlds.
If we stopped all unnecessary consumption today and all efforts went to remediation of the damage already done, it still won't be enough to fix the world. We have finite resources and there isn't a global will to do anything differently. We've blown past every warning light and marker with thoughts and prayers.
Rethious t1_j2tmlfc wrote
>There mat be so little it may well be 0.
I’m sorry, but that’s a fundamentally unserious view.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2tngks wrote
How much of the rainforest is destroyed per day? Wetlands? How many wells of oil still spewing how much in to the environment? How many forever chemicals spills have been remedied? The ramifications of our actions have only begun, and the actions haven't stopped. None the less the underdeveloped areas that don't even have a clue or care to tally pollution accurately.
goes231even t1_j2uwec0 wrote
What is unserious is believing the fairytale that says any of our meager efforts toward conservation are making even the slightest dent in the problem as the rate of the destruction that got us here in the first place is not only not slowing down but is actually increasing.
Any efforts toward saving the environment are essentially a capitalistic dog and pony show at this point and has even reached the mainstream news outlets.
Rethious t1_j2vad9c wrote
This is the exact type of pessimistic fatalism that is antithetical to actually accomplishing anything.
yassenof t1_j2v2628 wrote
You're using some overly strong hyperbole here, and it undermines your point.
monkeylogic42 t1_j2v5gue wrote
Where, pray tell, is the hyperbole? Are you sure you're not just the one with their head in the sand??
yassenof t1_j2wouwq wrote
The numbers you used for your years. And yes I'm sure.
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