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Accomplished-Dig3991 t1_j2wccc7 wrote

All human beings are evil. This ranges from tyrannical figures to saints. It is a spectrum. No one does anything solely for others. There is always something for them to gain.

People spend time with another person to make themselves feel better. Or they do it to avoid the potential backlash of said person. Buy a gift for someone to make them happy, which in turn creates fulfillment in oneself.

Humans do not do anything that doesn't constitute personal gain, even if it is minimal.

There is also a saying that goes something like "give a man a mask and he will show his true self." I believe this to be all too true. A person will take advantage of this and do as they please. This can range from stealing a pack of gum to robbery to even more heinous crimes. It is just a spectrum or scale of how evil an individual is.

This is just my personal philosophy. I'm young, being just over 20 and kinda a pessimistic person. I bet this idea will change or evolve with age and wisdom.

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Jaggerex t1_j2wyoti wrote

All human beings are evil.

All human beings are good.

I believe both these statements to be true, even though they may sound contradictory.

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AccendoTV t1_j2y1tlk wrote

Which would mean humans are neither since they cancel out each other, no?

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Jaggerex t1_j2y3k7v wrote

I try not to think of it as a net-net equation with a final computed result.

But more like they have both evil and good qualities that co-exist with each other.

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ChadRyanVevo t1_j31ovc1 wrote

An interesting take and one I used to hold myself. I would possibly counter that human beings, being rational creatures, have the unique ability to recognize rationality rationally. A bit Kantian in nature. We use rationality to assign transcendent value to other rational beings. Given this type of thinking, it is possible that humans can be good out of value logic rather than any personal gain. Respecting beings of value given their intrinsic value and nothing else. However, this explanation maybe insufficient given fallibility and lack of genuine access to eternal agent existence (I think therefore I am). This is not really a refutation but a possible alternative.

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Daniel_thewierd t1_j33mbek wrote

Human beings have the capability of good and evil, that's a better way to put it, how and why they tend to use these capabilities defines them. It's what the religions have tried to say, when you are free of this good and bad, of these differences. That's when you see everything as they are. You become a mirror and by reflecting everything (as they are) inside yourself you know their truth. It's a rather easy concept yet human beings keep struggling to know it.

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[deleted] t1_j35mxei wrote

First of all, what do you define evil as?

Let's take people who do good acts to make themselves feel better, i.e. to boost their confidence or self-value. What makes that evil? If this act benefits everyone maximally, isn't it actually the highest good (since it hurts no one)?

Why must complete altruism be the only good?

Can complete altruism even be achieved? Is there any virtuous act that I can commit without affecting myself in a good or bad way? Can I commit an act that benefits others while not affecting myself?

Going back to people who act in terms of non-materialistic confidence or self-value. Someone who volunteers because helping others makes them feel happy. Assuming that they were given your mask (or the Ring of Gyges), wouldn't they continue to commit acts that help others?

On a sidenote, I would recommend reading on Epicurus. He shared your belief that humans are hedonists, but challenges you in your ethical conclusions from that belief.

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ElegantAd2607 t1_j3l2gxb wrote

Technically a perfectly selfless act would be to give your life for a stranger. There is no personal gain because you dont know the person or what they're gonna do in the future.

I guess that's why Jesus is seen as the perfect man. He died for the world. For people he didn't know.

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ElegantAd2607 t1_j3l20mh wrote

So are you saying that because there is something to be gained from helping others, there is no way anyone can be good. That's sad. I think that being good is taking the time out of your day to do kind for things people, and yes this can still benefit you, but that doesn't mean it wasn't good.

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